I talked with the second ref and he said it was Marks call, not his.

[quote=Chief Renegade So in potentially dangerous situations involving legal moves, the coach can push the opposing wrestler off without any penalty? I have no problem with how Steve acted and certainly wish no harm on Tripp. However, the match is over at that time and Woofter should have won. [/quote]

Again, I do not know either the Olathe South coach or wrestler. But if this is allowed with no penalty, could it not be a successful and legal strategy to avoid a fall? Just go limp and have the coach rush the mat.

Did the designated tournament physician clear the unconscious wrestler to return? I believe that, by rule, a wrestler who is deemed unconscious by the official must be cleared by a physician in order to return to action in that match and any future match in that tournament. . .

I wasn't there, but I know 2 things are certain:

1. Coach Mesa would never run onto a mat unless there was something severely wrong and scary for his wrestler's immediate safety.

2. Coach Mesa is a coach with integrity and he would not stop a match for an easy way out, ever.

No one said he did or would.

But there are rules that should be followed and if the wrestler's safety is the most important concern, who cares if the match is ended due to his actions of concern?

The one question no one has answered that could end all this discussion is, what is the rule that applies when a coach walks onto the mat and stops the action by touching the opponent?

I respect Steve and know that he was sincerely concerned for his wrestler. I don't blame him for that. It doesn't change the fact that the match should have been over.

[/quote]

if the wrestler's safety is the most important concern, who cares if the match is ended due to his actions of concern?

You obviously do.

I was in the stands watching the 152lb finals match. Coach Mesa acted out of instinct and I applaud him for his actions. From the stands it was obvious that the OS wrestler was passed out...his body was completly limp. Even the guys warming up on the other mats, Lucas Vincent comes to mind, were hollering "he's out, he's out!" The head and arm was COMPLETELY legal...but those of us who have been in them know that, in certain instances, the more you struggle to pull out of it the tighter it gets. I do feel that the match should have been stopped and SME should have been awarded the victory. Coach Mesa did tell the official "Give him the match, I'm only concerned about my guy's health" or something to that effect. The official did consult the on-site physician and the wrestler, and I'm assuming the physician cleared the OS guy to continue. In my opinion, terrible call by the physician and the officials. A kid passes out, which means that there was a lack of blood flow to the brain, which should mean you are done for the day!

For those concerned about the "push or shove" of the SME kid by Coach Mesa I offer this...your kid is passed out under another wrestler and you are paniced into survival mode, you are going to do what is necessary to save your kid (or at least I hope you would)." It was clear to everyone watching that Coach Mesa interfered with the match only for the safety of his wrestler and not to stop a fall.

I hope that one day when I have a son old enough to wrestle that his coach cares as much about his safety as Coach Mesa does about his wrestlers!

Same scenario last week at Rose Hill; Wrestler knocked out hitting mat (clean throw) Match stopped. Knocked out wrestler could not continue until a Doctor signed off. Match over. A default as it should be. (had a Doctor of Veterinarian Medicine avaiable but that didn't work as we were trying to inject a little humor into a scary situation.) Everything is fine now.

If the true concern is a rule infraction, then why not start a thread on the Ask the Ref section. Nothing more can be solved here.

There is a thread already about it on Ask the Ref. Many were curious as to why the match continued.

I do care if after the safety of the individual is assured, the rules are not followed and it results in the wrong finish to a match. This really doesn't matter much now since it was only league. Would others feel differently if this was at regional or state and it impacted who qualified or placed?

Or is it ok since the coach and the wrestler are respected individuals of integrity? Would the rules be applied differently if you or your coach are scoundrels?

I feel that I should add a disclaimer that although I post under the name LancerLou, I have no current ties to SME and was gently and correctly chastised following this match by a SME parent. I would be just as interested in this rule if I saw it on another mat.

it's there, still no word on coach interference. probably looking it up. could take some time for official answer, may not be in the case books.

At the point that the wrestler lost consciousness, you no longer had a wrestling match but in fact had a MEDICAL EMERCENCY and the coach acted admirably. The talk about what rules the coach broke or how many points should have been awarded seems trivial and under the circumstances the ref should have the leeway to use his judgment, understanding the coaches intent! On the surface the continuation of the match seems like a ridiculous decision ,on not only the refs part, but also the coaches, trainers, and Doctor (I doubt a doctor gave his OK.)

You know what? I agree.

This all happened so fast and the assumed-to-be unconscious wrestler was up and moving pretty quickly. This was thankfully not a situation where the crowd was quiet and everyone was on pins and needles hoping the guy was ok.

There you go, a voice of reason. If everybody was acting in good faith, doing the best they could in a wierd situation, and nobody got hurt, why expect or ask for more from any of those involved. If the match can be used for a vehicle for a civilized, decent, and rational discussion of the rules, even better.

I just thought of a story that was funny after-the-fact. I am pretty new to wrestling, only been involved a total of 6 years and the last 2 as a college fan. Just to show how different college is from high school (and it should be) one of our college wrestlers took a shot off the whistle, hit his head on the mat, was knocked unconscious and pinned all in less than 10 seconds. In college they call a fall so fast, you'd never know the guy was out cold. The wrestler himself laughs about this now that he has been checked out following the concusion and is ok.

Sunflower League Wrestling Championships; At Shawnee Mission Northwest - Team results

1 (tie). SM East and SM Northwest, 156.5; 3. SM South, 131.5; 4. Leavenworth, 117; 5. Olathe North, 112; 6. Lawrence, 107.5; 7. SM North, 92.5; 8. SM West, 87; 9. Olathe Northwest, 74; 10. Olathe East, 68; 11. Olathe South, 61; 12. Free State, 45.

Individual winners:

103

Championship � Chandler Gordon, SMNW, p. Danny Kostroske, SMW, 1:47; Third place � Drew Botello, FS, m.d. Tommy McGillicuddy, SME, 14-4; Fifth place � Jackson Cobb, ONW p. Brent Haffey, SMS, 1:42.

112

Championship � Hunter Haralson, LAW, p. Jack Mitchell, SME, 1:34; Third place � Reed Bowker, SMNW, dec. Matt Kostroske, SMW, 10-8; Fifth place � Grant Jongerius, SMS, by default.

119

Championship � Tre Humphrey, SMS, p. Joey Estrada, ON, 2:19; Third place � Tracy Copen, OS, dec. Colby Everett, SMNW, 12-5; Fifth place � Austin Bergeron, OE, dec. Ben Soukup, FS, 6-0.

125

Championship � Ross Whitmore, SMNW, dec. Javon Haines, LV, 4-3 (OT); Third place � Ethan Becker, SMS, dec. Nick Bauerly, OS, 5-2; Fifth place � Carter Kerr, SME, by default over Mike Blanco, ONW.

130

Championship � Mike Beachem, LV, dec. Ben Randolph, SME, 9-7; Third place � Tyler Deal, SMNW, dec. Reis Humphrey, SMS, 6-0; Fifth place � Taylor Griggs, ON, dec. Trevor Bolerjack, OS, 10-8.

135

Championship � Tyler Klopper, SMS, dec. Cord Powell, SMW, 7-0; Third place � Andrew Denning, LAW, dec. Dylan Murrison, ONW, 6-0; Fifth place � Dominic Jaramillo, OE, dec. Dylan Swoyer, SMNW, 5-3.

140

Championship � Andrew Jones, SMN, dec. Tanner Johnson, SME, 7-5; Third place � Will Collins, OE, dec. Ed Spaunhorst, SMNW, 5-2; Fifth place � Tobias Popchoke, ON, p. J.W. Pabst, SMS, 0:21.

145

Championship � Connor Middleton, ONW, dec. Will Price, LV, 5-3 (OT); Third place � Todd Morgan, OE, dec. Will Greenhaw, SMNW, 4-1; Fifth place � Blake Hill, SME, by default over Blake Hill, SME.

152

Championship � Trip Hiller, OS, dec. Chase Woofter, SME, 7-5; Third place � Tyler Allen, SMW, t.f. Cody Carson, SMW, 19-3; Fifth place � Cameron Magdaleno, LAW, by default over Curtis Langley, SMS.

160

Championship � Reece Wright-Conklin, LAW, inj. def. Nick Caldwell, SMNW; Third place � Blaine Hill, SME, dec. Ross Riggs, OE, 2-1; Fifth place � Justin Diercks, SMN by default over Emmanuel Hernandez, SMS.

171

Championship � Jeff Rutherford, SME, dec. Dustin Walthall, LAW, 9-4; Third place � Kyle Needham, SMN, m.d. Cordi Pascal, SMW, 11-1; Fifth place � Nick Quinn, OE, by default over Bobby Urteaga, SMNW.

189

Championship � David Blazevic, ON, dec. Nathan Butler, LV, 6-2; Third place � Greg Welsh, SME, by default over Spencer Chestnut, LAW; Fifth place � Blake Covington, SMNW, dec. Dustin Howard, SMN, 6-5.

215

Championship � Jake Carroll, ON, p. Josh Bush, LV, 5:52; Third place � Jamie Barnhart, SMN, dec. Christian VanMatre, SMS, 8-2; Fifth place � Brad Wilson, LAW, inj. def. Joey Cunningham, FS.

285

Championship � Lucas Vincent, ON, p. Josh Wilson, LV, 0:34; Third place � Austin Wolfe, ONW, p. Brandon Bishop, SMN, 2:16; Fifth place � Deaven Jensen, SMS, dec. Tyler Smith, OS, 4-2 (OT).