While I am disapointed that the 6U state did not pass I am more disapointed that some clubs left today before the voting even started.

This was a very close vote to attaining the 2/3 majority needed to pass and this result points out just how important every vote is.

The original vote 61 to 32 (I think)...
That is a one vote swing. The sad thing is there 2 or 3 D2 clubs that showed up aand then left. I am excited to see when the minutes will be posted and the role call vote will be posted as well!!
Representation of your club is key at state body meetings. Its a shame some clubs don't take it serious!

And they'll be the ones B*tching the loudest..........

I also think we need to take a look at how we vote on these issues. It is a very unperfect system that we use.

The votes change so drastically when it is a public vote. Walking behind a curtain to put your vote in a yes or no box would be one idea. The 6u vote changed when it went to a roll call vote, as some clubs didn't want to hurt Ottawa's feelings, and voted no, when they had voted yes before.

And when voting for officers, for instance treasurer, I see how people vote: They wait for someone else to raise their card, then they raise theirs. I am convinced that if Patty Ochs name had been read first, she would have won. When they read Leanna's name, a few cards went up, then a few more, pretty soon the whole room had their cards in the air, possibly not even knowing what or who they were voting for. We follow like cattle......Both ladies are fine for the position, but I am giving an example.

There was another issue that was voted down because the 2/3 majority wasn't met, by just a few votes as well. Just like in our local and national elections, the rules are put in place by the 30-40% of the clubs that vote. Come on people, if you make the drive to Salina to sign in for the meeting, what is a few more hours to stick around and vote?

Just some observations.

The good news is, that is I believe, the closest 6U State has ever come to passing. If my memory is correct it has failed to even muster a simple majority in past voting.
The bad news is, by all appearances, the over-all attendance at the state body meeting continues to fall since we disconnected the coaches passes at the State tournament from attendance at the state body meeting. While I have no numbers to back up my theory, it sure seems there are less and less clubs attending. I think someone told me there was somewhere around half the sanctioned clubs from D1 attending? If that is true, that is shameful!
The lack of passage of the 6U falls squarely on the shoulders of D2. But, if we can't get our attendance up for the meeting then we need to start allowing proxy voting or written mail-in ballots on major issues. One of these years we are going to have a major issue that has to be addressed and we aren't going to have a quorum with which to deal with it if we don't do something.

I like the idea of having everyone at one place, but a secret ballot is still the best way to get the votes cast. No worrying about what someone else thinks.

There is a reason that unions are wanting to take away the secret ballot. It allows people to be influenced, intimidated, etc. into voting the way someone ELSE wants you to vote........

To me this is not about hurting Ottawa's feeling. The gentleman from Ottawa himself even said that he in the past pushed for having an official 6 and under State. Why now when a proposal, where the majority of clubs are in favor, is he against it?

I was more trying to make a point for why we should have some sort of secrecy in our voting.

But again, if it was that important to people, why did we have less than half of our teams at this meeting?

Completely agree with you. I also believe a secret ballot after disscussion on all items is the way to go.

All items 15 of them almost got voted on without discussion - that would have been wrong. That is why we have state meetings to discuss proposals, ideas and thoughts. Otherwise there would be no need to show up if everyone just voted on 15 items in a block that are unrelated to one another. Every item should be voted individually. Who would count the secret ballots? Are these hand written ballots that are signed by club representatives? I vote that voters are present at the meetings. There is nothing wrong with a roll call vote - that is as about as open voting as you can get. Most of us just found out about these items about 2 to 3 weeks ago. I would like to see when proposals are submitted in July that they are posted on the web site in early August - that would allow for ample discussion and the vote at the state meeting would be much shorter.

Come on now Smokey all 15 item did not almost get voted on with out discussion. Sure there was a motion but I believe it was soundly defeated.

I still believe that discussion should be had on each item. That can still be accomplished and then a ballot is cast.

We decide far more important things in this country than what will happen with wrestling in the State of Kansas with the use of secret ballots, absentee ballots, and early voting. Don't see any reason that it can't work.

I would like to see when proposals are submitted in July that they are posted on the web site in early August - that would allow for ample discussion and the vote at the state meeting would be much shorter.

I agree with getting issues out to the membership as soon as possible, but if you think that someone will vote the same in a roll call vote as they would in a secret ballot type vote, you are fooling yourself. Some would, but a lot would not. It is like being a liberal in rural Kansas. Most people would hide the fact that they are liberal, and talk conservative at the small town cafe. But without a secret ballot, they would not feel comfortable voting for their liberal candidates. As it is now, they go behind the curtain and vote for whomever they want, without worrying about someone looking over their shoulder.


I don't want my posts to imply that I am superdisappointed with the results of any particular item. I voted for the 6u issue, but didn't lose a wink of sleep over it. It is not that important to me, because I know where it counts in wrestling, and it isn't 6u. I also have a different outlook on the 6u state tourney that Ottawa puts on, than the "fun fun fun" picture that was painted of it. It is another wrestling tourney that is LATE in the season, when 6u kids should probably be at home, on a Sunday. The day after a long grueling day at SUbs or districts, can't recall which. I supported the "true" 6u state series to acknowledge the tremendous amount of money that the 6u kids kick into our state's coffers. I guess shortening the 6u season for most 6u kids was the main reason though.

The out of state wrestler issue is another that I wasn't strongly opposed or in favor of. I think we open ourselves up to letting kids in, but up to this point, hasn't been a big issue. Someone made a comment about those Oklahoma kids having to drive 5 hours every weekend. That is not true. They already said they are wrestling in KS every weekend already. We would only ask them to drive to the OKC or TUlsa area for their subs, district and state. Topeka is farther than OKC or TUlsa, so technically we are only asking them to drive a long distance an extra 2 times.

Come on people, standing up with a sad look on your face, saying "we do what is best for the kids" over and over, doesn't make you any better person that those that just DO what is best for the kids, without having to say it. Actions speak louder than words. As a matter of fact, when someone stands up saying that worn out statement, maybe I am taking it as you accusing me of NOT doing what is best for the kids. And that would bother me.

As for how to do the voting, and who counts them? Very simple, but would take a little more time: Behind a curtain that ALL hotels with meeting rooms have available, is a box with a hole in it that says FOR and another that says AGAINST. Each club is given a "ticket" as they go behind the curtain, (and their club is marked off the list to keep them from voting more than once) and they put their ticket in the box that they choose. Dump the boxes out on the table and count 'em.

Or, behind that same curtain, a smart feller like Mike Juby could come up with a excel program that allows a club rep to punch in a simple password, and has a YES or NO button to push, that would allow a computer to keep a running total (not shown on the screen) until all votes are tallied. Push the "tally 'em up" button, and you have your results.

I am not accusing anyone of anything, but what would have kept me from handing my green card to someone from another club, leaving, and allowing that club to vote with my card? The above "hand you a ticket as you walk behind the curtain" or "log in with your password" ideas would keep this from being an issue.

Things to think about.

That is one solid post! Was the vote 63-33 IN FAVOR of 6U State?

Doug you are completely right on voting different and it proved itself on Sunday. The count was different when it was decided to do a roll-call vote than the initial vote.

The bottom line continues to be there were enough clubs from distric 2 alone that left before voting took place that would have swung the result based on the discussion in the district meeting and their support of the proposal there.

Was the vote 63-33 IN FAVOR of 6U State?

No.

Idon't recall the exact numbers, but I believe the first count was 67-35, and the roll call vote made it 62 37 or something like that. There were obviously some clubs not voting during the roll call vote.

I didn't pay attention to who stayed or who left, but it is unbelievable that a club rep would take the time to drive up, sign in, and then leave before the votes take place.

And yes, it was in favor of 6u state. But it needed the 2/3 majority to pass apparently. That is something I didn't realize until the meeting started. Ignorance is no excuse, but had that info been brought up, my guess is that a lot more clubs would have voted. All the talk I heard coming up to the meeting was that it was going to pass. Not once did I hear that it would have to pass by a 2-1 majority.

It may have been posted on this site's forum regarding 6u state, but I quit reading about page 2.............

"The sad thing is there 2 or 3 D2 clubs that showed up and then left."

Maybe some of them left because they did not want to be told they had to vote one way or another. I like to be able think for myself.

There are several responsibilities that accompany American citizenship, one of which is voting.

Voting is one of those important duties and privileges Americans have. Although you may not be able to force a person to vote it is their right to be afforded the opportunity.

Noone told the clubs that they had to vote one way or another. We talked at our district meeting about whether we wanted to commit to voting as a district or not, and there was no clear agreement to do so. Kind of like my family votes the same way, for what is best for my family. No need for my wife to cancel out my vote, or vice versa.

If by chance that was the reason they left, it would have been nice if they had voiced that concern at the district meeting. I would at least have some respect for them for speaking up. If they are using that as an excuse for leaving, it is pretty weak. I believe they left because they didn't feel strongly enough about any of the issues, and wanted to watch football games...........

what was the vote for kids to wrestle up if they exceed max weight in their age group?