As a person watching 5A and 6A in Wichita, I was very sick of what I saw today. I am a catholic and it made me very sick to see STA coaches lie and act the way they did during this 3rd and 4th place match. It was very obvious that the kid from SHHS was ready for the overtime match. Instead it went south. As a Catholic, I was very disappointed in seeing the STA coaches not do the right thing today. Don't say you are a "religious" person and lie and want to "screw" the other person. I was very disappointed. VERY. What happended to honest people? Especially when you are coming from a CATHOLIC school!

It doesnt matter that Kmiec was ready for the overtime cuz the score wasnt tied. Tommy Williams won the match fair and square.

You must be from STA because I did not even know the kids name. But I still don't agree with it. It is BS and the whole arena knew it. What a sad situation.

I’m not sure if their has been a rule change or not, but I was always under the impression that the mat officials made the calls during a wrestling match, not the coaches? Please explain how the coaches determined the outcome?

First Mom, 'as a Catholic' (you, not me) I hope and expect that you read your Bible. Read Romans 3. "****ALL**** have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."

Being 'religious' makes one no more honest than being an atheist (of which I am not, I like the ways of Jesus. I am a Christian that appreciates many of the 'paths of the East' also - many of which are just the same teachings of the Bible - just put in a different way).

You would 'think' it would (being religious, making one honest), but if that were the case, then why would 'the Church' have paid out millions and millions of dollars in legal settlements over the last few decades? And, why all the Crusades of he past? CONVERT or die by the sword does not seem very Christ-like. Click here if you want to learn more about honest, death and 'the Church' here:

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/pope-urban-ii-orders-first-crusade

NOTE: Nothing against Roman Catholics. I have no beef with them or any other peaceful religious (or irreligious) person. "As much as it depends on you, live in PEACE WITH ALL MEN." Romans 12. I'm just pointing out to Mom, my first point. "ALL have sinned . . ." and therefore we ALL live in glass houses and are not wise to throw stones. We are ALL just blind beggars helping (ideally) each other find bread.

Stating 'the whole arena knew it' is BS. I was in the area that night also. If you remember, it was crowded. There were also two matches going on at the same time. One thing I do remember was the three refs taking their time, talking with each other. Unfortunately (or, maybe fortunately?) our sport has no video instant reply challenges like in professional football.

I highly doubt that the refs had any 'beef' with Kmiec. I'm not a 'conspiracy kind of guy'. They had a thorough discussion and came up with what they thought was the best decision. Now, was it in fact, 'the best'? Only God will ever know that. It was a sad way to end a great match. But that is life. Life is tough.

I'm sure both young wrestlers would have rather had the match end more decisively. I am sure both kids wished the 'refs had not decided the match'. But, as we have all been told many times before, 'dominate your opponent so much that it is never in the ref's hands. I understand, very unpractical when both wrestlers are of equal ability. Have those two wrestle each other a hundred different times and get just about as many different outcomes.

Its an imperfect world. All were trying the best they could at the time.

And, where one is from - has nothing to do with this topic. I am from Junction City so I had 'no horse in the race'.

Mom, you just need to get over it and move on. . . Don't role model bitterness, hatred, hypocrisy, and UNforgiveness. Christ does not approve of those things either.

Great match young men. Thanks for the entertainment and I am sad for both of you that the refs played such an important role in it's ultimate outcome. Learn from it. Grieve a bit from it if you need to. Then LET IT GO and move on with your LIFE!

If Mom wants to stay stuck in the past, HER CHOICE. So be it. Hopefully, young men - you will be wiser than that. Whining about it is just 'sour grapes' and it is not going to change a thing. It is only going to make things WORSE...

Mom, you are currently 'drunk with emotion'. Settle down. Take a class in logic at your local community college. It will be money well spent.

Dean Welsh
Junction City

Either post your name with your negative comments or keep quiet. The Board Rules, which you agreed to, are quite clear.

Board Rules
This is a free forum, created for the purpose of promoting Kansas wrestling, and those who wrestle, through the exchange of thoughts and suggestions, and for the recognition of the accomplishments of those involved in our sport.

There are just two basic rules that are necessary to keep in mind. First, remember that this is a family oriented forum, and is regularly viewed by young wrestlers. Second, "cheap shots" will not be tolerated. If you are going to post a message critical of an individual, group or idea, you must give your true name and/or email address. Be willing to stand behind your comments, or keep them to yourself.

Regardless or your ignorant comments, Coach Lorne Parke from STA is a class act and very highly thought of in wrestling circles.

From one Catholic to another, keep your false disparaging comments to yourself. Prior to Holy Communion this morning I would suggest a visit to the Confessional.

Richard,

Nice post. One point of correction since you like to get your facts straight.

You sound like you mean you are a ROMAN Catholic. "Catholic" in and of itself speaks of 'universal Body of Christ', which is all Christians regardless of denominations/labels and makes no mention of Popes, the Vatican, beads, confessionals and such . . .

Dean Welsh - Junction City, KS

cath·o·lic
   /ˈkæθəlɪk, ˈkæθlɪk/ Show Spelled[kath-uh-lik, kath-lik] Show IPA
–adjective
1.
broad or wide-ranging in tastes, interests, or the like; having sympathies with all; broad-minded; liberal.
2.
universal in extent; involving all; of interest to all.
3.
pertaining to the whole Christian body or church.
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Origin:
1300–1350; Middle English < Latin catholicus < Greek katholikós general, equivalent to kathól ( ou ) universally (contraction of phrase katà hólou according to the whole; see cata-, holo-) + -ikos -ic

i thought "catholic" could act as they wish as long as they go to confession. we all know what BS stands for. can't you just go confess that away, too? just kidding, just trying to lighten the mood some. i would like to know how you think that the STA coaches "screwed" the other wrestler. i would think that GOD frowns on the use of "screwed" too. just a guess.

I don't think that religion or coaches had anything to do with the outcome of this match. There was obviously a great deal of confusion surrounding the final score of it. Honestly, even twenty minutes after the conclusion of the match the ref still offered a very sketchy account of what determined the final score. It was disappointing to see a young man's high school wrestling career end on such a note. That's life. Congratulations to Tommy Williams. Good kid, Great wrestler. Congrats to Jake Gentzler on his 3rd championship. (even though the announcer only credited him for two). Another great kid and phenomenal wrestler. The 125 bracket was a fun one to follow with a lot of talented young men. Also, Congrats to AC for the team title. Very impressive as a team this weekend.

Stan Kmiec

My understanding this is a wrestling forum. Why don't we keep it that way. For those of us that weren't there, how about somebody present us with some facts of what transpired...or don't...no matter. However I suggest we leave religion, as well as basketball, to other forums. Congratulations to all champions this weekend, especially to TJ Stokes...my family is very proud of you.

Keith Heniss

I was watching this match with my team. My 145 pounder is in algebra 1 and our 285 pounder is in pre algebra. They are both seniors and are currently learning that 2 does not equal 3. Therefore kmiec could have gotten as ready as he wanted for overtime. But that only happens if the score is even.

Good thoughts that I noticed also. But, I was already too long-winded as usual. Therefore, I'm glad somebody pointed out those other contradictions in Mom's post.

Mom, logic is a great class! Try it!

Dean Welsh
Junction City, KS

Stan, you are all class.

I for one am tired of these stupid religion posts. All mom of several is an STA hater. Don't premise your comment by saying "as a Catholic" blah, blah, blah and then bag on a coach and program without at least posting your name. That makes you the worst type of person there is...a hypocrite.

Rerferees are paid well for the state tournament and should be in control a of match. A coach went to bat for an athlete he has spent 3 hours a day for 4 months with, I don't see what the problem is. There is no account of what happened, just your hate filled rant about STA.

Catholic means "universal" yes, but when somebody says they are Catholic, then we know they are speaking about the Catholic Church. Whether they are practicing or not is another story so let's not split hairs fellas and come up with all kinds of cute definitions of what it is.

And, just because a person is Catholic, doesn't mean they can't get angry. You know how many calls I used to get that started out..."I don't think we as a Catholic school should blah, blah, blah...." which is dumb because when you work in a school, there is a right way and a wrong way to treat kids regardless of what kind of school you are in. And at the end of the day, I am not going to sit there and take it just "because I am at a Catholic school" when people are being idiots.

Mom of several, I know you are Catholic because of your sign in name, ahh you could be Mormom I guess too, but you said you were Catholic, do you think you did the right thing by bagging on a coach and program using an annonymous name? Seems pretty gutless to me.

Congratulations to Tommy Williams!

I'm a proud Catholic and proud to be part of St. Thomas Aquinas.

My sincere apologies to all for taking the 'Catholic' bait that mom threw out. This is a wrestling forum. My bad. Please forgive me and if I ever do it again (let's hope not!), please call me out on it either via the forum or by PM.

Thank you.

Dean Welsh
Junction City, KS

Very well said Mr. Kmiec. I was there. I saw the match. I even saw the refs still talking about it prior to the next match starting. I thought, "well good in that they are still trying to learn from what just happened a few minutes ago - teachable folks are always better to work with than NON-teachable folks.

The wrestlers were scrambling so good, hard and fast - that it became very, very hard to recall just exactly what in fact happened.

I love the way they both wrestled hard and with tons of offensive. A lot of the defensive matches (wrestling not to lose as opposed to wrestling to win - put me asleep). Not so with this match!

Well said, sad way to end his high school career but as you appropriately stated, "that's life". He'll recover and I bet ultimately be a better young man from the whole ordeal in the long run.

Finally, unless and until you (the general public, I am not addressing this part of my note to Mr. K.) have actually ref'd a match - you have no idea how hard and challenging it is.

I used to be 'hard' on them and thought I 'knew it all', then I ref'd for just one year. I was so bad at it, that I fired myself! Impossible job. You have to know the rules WELL. You have to have EXCELLENT vision. You have to make SPLIT SECOND decisions in HIGH PRESSURE situations.

My brief experience in trying it sure humbled me. I still get dumb occasionally and think I know better than the ref (or two or three as in these finals matches) down on the mat (who is more knowledgeable, more experienced and has a MUCH BETTER view) but of those view times, I would imagine that 99% of the time I was wrong.

Thank you refs for doing your job. I know how difficult it is.

Dean Welsh
Junction City, KS

Any chance you could get this uploaded to youtube so we can what an incredible match it was?

from where I was sitting it was 1-3 in favor of the STA wrestler going into the third. the SHHS took bottom and escaped early. At around :20 the STA kid was hit with his first stalling warning. Then again at about :10 he was hit with another stalling and the ref signaled a point for the SHHS wrestler. Very close to the edge of the mat the STA wrestler may have had an escape at the end of the match but the referee never signaled a point(which from my view did looked like the right call). I believe the match should have been 3-3 and gone into overtime.

Funny how you make the rules stick for some and not others! I still do not know the names of XGH, Headup and many more! But you keep posting the rules as you see fit. You allowed all those people to post negative comments about me and never said a word to them about who they are? Richard dont be a hypocrite, if you are going to make one follow you should make all.

To Mom of Several:

My name is Tom Williams, I am the father of Tommy Williams and am one of the STA coaches in the corner of the match you described. The other is Lorne Parks, our head wrestling coach. I was there, I saw, and heard, what happened. I have also reviewed the videotape of the match.

Let me first say that we had two controversial call situations with my son. The first was the night before in his semifinal match, where he was ahead with seconds to go in the third period and the other wrestler was awarded a reversal, sending him, and not us, to the finals. We argued that call, as coaches do, and lost the argument. We then shook the winner's hand and congratulated him. I also spoke to the winner the next morning and congratulated him again and wished him luck in the finals. This is what we do at St. Thomas Aquinas, and is the only way we know.

Regarding the Williams/Kmiec match, we were ahead 2-1 and chose down in the 3rd period. It was a frantic period with Aspen Kmiec on top trying to turn Tommy, and Tommy trying not to get turned. With 20 seconds to go, the referee signalled a stall warning, and with 10/12 seconds to go, he signalled another stall warning, tying the match at 2-2. We then worked for an escape, and ended up standing up, with Kmiec keeping an overhook and we elevated him in the air, in the last few seconds. The refereed signalled nuetral and awarded us another point as time expired, making it 3-2. It was very frantic, as these situations usually are.

I am not sure what you mean by your lying comment, but it shows you lack understanding of the wrestling environment. We advocate on behalf of our wrestlers, as all coaches do, but at the end of the day, we accept, and teach our young men, to accept, the referees' decisions and go on with our business. This is what we did in our hearbreaking loss in the semifinals and the hectic win for third place with Kmiec.

As for the Kmiecs, young Aspen is a fierce competitor and wrestles like a lion on the mat. I assume Stan Kmiec is Aspen's father who responded and I would like to thank him for his comments. I know Aspen and spoke to him before the match at the tournament and I have met the family and they seem like good people. In our wrestling community we compete hard, but when finished, we try to act like gentlemen. Aspen has had a great high school career and has nothing to be ashamed of.

Should you wish to contact me, my email is wilgt@msn.com and Coach Parks is lparks@stasaints.net. We will not hide.

Tom Williams