What would you think of a separate State grade school tournament and post season State high school tournament?

My main suggestion for the grade school tournament is that it would end before most schools in the State go on Spring Break. I think it should end before the regular High School State tournaments. An earlier season end would be better so the kids and kids' coaches could all go to attend the High School tournament without interrupting their own season. You could have more tournaments in December to compensate for the earlier start. The age system I would suggest for this grade school tournament would be 7 & under, 9 & U, 11 & U, 14 & U with no high school participation with the same birthday cutoff. This would allow for the most part a 2nd grade & U, 4th & U, 6th & U, 8th & U age split. This would also let kids and families enjoy a Spring Break and give everyone some time off before freestyle or Spring sports.

The high school tournament would be under the Kids State organization and held after the regular season high school tournament. It would be an open tournament for freshmen, sophomores, juniors and seniors. There would be no qualifying tournaments before it. This would serve as probably the best alternative we could have now for a Grand State. Hopefully it would be held before the Lincoln tournament being held this week. For the High School wrestlers participating in this new State tournament they could also enjoy some time off before freestyle if this tournament was held shortly after the regular season High School State. I would think this would also let most of the high school wrestlers and families more free time for Spring break. I would suggest that this tournament being held possibly in Salina.

Oh I remember the days growing up- yes spring trip vacation- every year to the Kids State Wrestling tournament. Wrestling for my family was something we all enjoyed. Wrestling is a fmily sport and one that people need to remember is about the kids and making them feel like they are the best and not telling them they ruined spring break because they had to wrestle.

Plus there are still Junior High kids wrestling for their schools during the time you suggest. Matter of fact the league we are in just voted to keep the Jr High wrestling right where it is at which ends the first weekend in March. SO I would think holding the state as you say would eliminate many wrestlers and just doesn't make sense. Of course that is my point of view.

Spring break doesn't need to be a bad thing becuse one is wrestling at the state tournament. Use it as a great get away for the family. Let the family know that each person is very special and as a family you will support them. I understand sisters will complain but I can tell you I went to alot of things I didn't to growing up but it was all worth it because it installed values of family that I use today. Family is very important and doing things that the members like to do is important. If you are at the Kids State tournament then I bet your son/ daughter loves the sport.

Good Luck and God Bless

Another thought - if families had kids wrestling at both levels this could become a financial hardship having to attend 2 state tournaments.

Scooby states in response to my post: "Wrestling for my family was something we all enjoyed. Wrestling is a fmily sport and one that people need to remember is about the kids and making them feel like they are the best and not telling them they ruined spring break because they had to wrestle."

Neither my wife or I would say this to my son or try to make him feel that way. I believe that most of the wrestling people who know us and the time that we have put in with Jacob over the last eight years know that about us. I think they also know that we treasure every moment that we have spent with him during this time. I just don't understand why a person can't suggest a change on this forum without being considered selfish and unwilling to spend time with their child. Most people who know me and the time that I have spent with Jacob over the last eight years would find the idea that I am unwilling to spend time with Jacob in his wrestling laughable. In fact they would say that I go to the other extreme. Isn't this forum suppose to be about a free exchange of ideas about Kansas Kids wrestling? How can a person feel free to do that if they believe that they are going to be attacked personally for offering their honest opinion on something they consider to be positive change?

Scooby, that being said I will address your comment about the middle school wrestling which I do consider a positive exchange of an idea to my topic question. I agree that would be a problem to ending the Kids season early. Some adjustment would need to be made either at the middle school level or the timing of my proposal. This by the way was not my original idea. I first read about it in the USAW Kansas Kids Wrestling State Body Minutes 11/03/02: "The KWCA had approached Mike and said that they would like to see the Kids wrestling season end earlier. They would like to see it end before High School State, take a couple of weeks break, and then start the summer freestyle-Greco-roman season. They honestly feel we are going too long!! A brief discussion followed, but it was decided to leave as is."
So it appears that it was the KWCA's position at the time that they would prefer not to have their high school wrestlers involved in our post season tournament. In other topics during that time period I seem to remember that someone stated that most other states do not have their high school wrestlers wrestling in their Kids State tournaments. I know Missouri does not and I do not believe that Oklahoma or Iowa do either. Kansas may be more the exception than the rule with this.

Mom160, you do have a good point about the financial hardship of a second tournament. To be honest I really do not think another tournament is necessary for the high school kids. They have quality in-season tournaments and a great regular season State High School tournament. I believe we should let the grade school and middle school kids have their own separate tournament. But if we would have another one for high school kids who want more folkstyle wrestling after the regular season yes you are correct that it would be more expensive to those families who would have children in both. I know one of the things that has been said about the benefits of split tournaments is that it benefits 80% of the participants but doesn't really benefit the other 20% (coaches, workers and families in both sessions). The percentages might be different but like with any new idea or way of doing things you are probably not going to benefit 100% of the participants but the question than becomes would the majority benefit from the change. High school wrestlers could probably attend the tournament on their own with teammates and they could share costs like rooms and transportation. I know that would not be ideal for the family but this is a possible cost savings solution for them to this extra season tournament which I would not see as important for the family to attend as their regular season High School State tournament.

I agree on the hardship for sure- and personally I could go either way on the 16 and under at state. I think it is fun for them and a time to get together with old friends and wrestle a bit. As a youngin I would go to the high school state tournament and watch because those guys were my heros. When they added the 16 and under- I noticed most of the kids didn't find the need to go to High School State because they got to watch them wrestle right there in kids. Back in the day- the high School kids would work with littler kids at kids practice and go on saturdays to coach and that was great and I thought it gave the younger kids a chance to see them wrestler so that was great to. The best feeling in the world for a wrestler is having someone look up to you and seeing the younger kids high five the 16 and unders walking off the mat after a match is very cool. You can see the smile on the older kids face- even after a lose. So I have mixed feelings about 16 and under at state.

Sports these days are so expensive- I would how parents do it- I support any parent that gives to their children- I know it is tough

Scooby: I read your reply to my private message to you. I appreciate it and the time you took to write it. I will reply to you on it later when I have a little more time. Thank you for your reply.

There is one more idea though about the overall cost of this that I wanted to make to Mom160 and you. I actually think for the majority of families (who I don't believe probably would have wrestlers in both kids and high school) that it would be less expensive because there would be no Subs or Districts for the high school division. Sometimes I also wonder whether we really even need a Sub for the Kids. I may be wrong about that but it does seem like there have been a lot of small brackets at Subs over the last few years.

Vince, I noticed the largest number of incomplete brackets seemed to be at either end of the weight brackets, and this was at all age groups. I'm not sure what can be done about this. It seems there is no easy answers, because it involves change, and we all know how hard that is. I have a real soft spot for the 16u, not only because that is where we've spent the past 2 years wrestling, but because I know my son discovered kid wrestling as a freshman. I really believe that extra mat time helped make him a HS state qualifier as a sophomore, and a HS state medalist as a junior. Regardless of what decisions are made, the choice should be what is best for the kids. These choices will not involve my son as he is too old to compete anymore, but is planning to help coach next year.

I think High School kids is a great thing for the younger kids they can watch and learn from them. I know my Sophmore year if I was able to wrestle there would have been all 4 state champs from Highschool in that bracket where else would a 8 year old get to see the best in the state go at it. That holds true for alot of brackets look at the Madison kid from Salina Central this year 30-2 takes 2nd in 5a and then 3rd in kids. That means there are some great matches have your kid watch the best the state has to offer. Also Spring Break if you want to be the best you have to sacrifice to be the best. Love wrestling Appalachian State.

I could be wrong, but in the late 70's and early 80's when I wrestled in Kansas Kids they had a div call Schoolboys, which was for High school age kids. I don't remember having to qualify for state. You just signed up, wrestled and then went snow skiing with the family. I coached in Ks for over 15 years and always wonder what happend to this div.

Husker_Fan:

I'm know that the Lenten abstinence from posting on the message board was tough but you did it!!!!

I'll put in my 2 cents on this subject. I think that having an opportunity for the high schoolers, particularly those that didn't make it to HS state, wrestled JV or freshman, should get the chance to come back and wrestle kids. Plus it gives the 8th graders (like your kid) a taste of what is to come!

A lot of good feedback here. I am going to address several of them from my last post but I will probably do it with more than one post. No one seems to be agreeing with me. I know there are a few people that do from past topics and conversations. Also there are obviously people with the KWCA who agreed with my basic idea of no high school participation at Kids State.

Specifically I will address wrestlingmom first because she takes care of my son and the rest of our STA kids during the entire year. She works very hard to keep all of our STA family including the coaches organized. You do a great job with it and we all appreciate it. It was difficult not posting thru Lent as that is the peak of the Kids season but I probably spared the rest of you some of my crazy ideas. Considering all the people agreeing with me so far this must be one of those crazy ideas. wrestlingmom, Smokeycabin sent me an e-mail that agreed with the two points that you made about the opportunities it gives to high schoolers who did not make State and the opportunity it gave 8th graders like Jacob to get a taste of high school competition. I agree that it does give the 8th grader a chance to see what high school is going to be about. I just wish it was on a little more equal competitive footing. I think a 9th grader who has been practicing and competing 5 days a week against sophomores, juniors and seniors has an unfair advantage against 8th graders who only practice 3 days at the most and may not have anyone their size to practice against by the 8th grade. As far as the high schoolers who did not wrestle varsity, yes I agree it gives them more quality mat time but I also think the KWCA made a good point that they might be better off to take two weeks off and then go right into freestyle. For more folkstyle mat time I would suggest that they enter my new proposed Salina post season open high school tournament. If that proved to be too competitive for most of the JV high schoolers perhaps we could include a JV division in it. That is enough for this post. Except publicly I want to congratulate your family on the very successful season that your two wrestling sons had this year. They sure scored a lot of points for the team.

Mom160, yes you are correct that most of the incomplete brackets are at the end of the weight brackets. One solution for this would be to put 14 & U and 16 & U on the high school weight system. For instance in 14 & U around my sons weights it goes in 5 pound increments of 145,150,155,160,165,175,205,235,265 instead of the high school 145,152,160,171,189,215,275. Go to the high school weights and you cut two weights classes and will have more complete brackets. I imagine that could be done on the lighter end too.

Josh Carroll and Scooby mentioned about the young kids watching the older wrestlers in action. My son has been at State for six years. I think he has rarely watched an older boy wrestle. I think for the most part they are mainly just focused on their age and weight groups. I think the majority of the spectators are that way too. They pretty much focus on the mats around the one that their kid is wrestling on. I am not saying everyone is this way but for the most part I don't think we are focus on all of the action. My focus this year was primarily on 14 & under, the last two years it was 12 & under because that is where my son was wrestling.

Up North, I think there are some states that have separate schoolboy and cadet type tournaments. I think Iowa does it that way and maybe Nebraska too.

Husker_Fan:

I think that Jacob placing as an 8th grader in his weight class is huge. Phillip qualified for state but didn't place as an 8th grader. And we know many very good high school and college wrestlers who didn't even qualify for state as an 8th grader.

wrestlingmom,

I agree that Jacob accomplished a lot in placing at State as an 8th grader. I also agree that just qualifying as an 8th grader is quite an accomplishment. In fact we were very much concerned about that at Districts. I was surprised to read that Phillip did not place last year. I thought he had placed every year at State.

To be honest I believe it was better for Jacob's wrestling future to wrestle the tough 9th graders including EJ Walter this year. There is no doubt that it will make him more prepared for what he will face next. But just because this was better for Jacob doesn't mean I think it is better for the majority of the kids overall.

From the very first year that Jacob went to State six years ago, I could not understand why high school wrestlers came back to wrestle at the grade school tournament. I guess I just never experienced anything like that from my main high school sport of football back when I played in prehistoric times. I started posting my ideas on it about four years ago, but I have never found too many people who seemed to agree with me. I wouldn't mind it if we had big enough facilities so that everyone could have full mats and reasonable waits between matches. Actually the waits between matches have not been to bad the last couple of years at State except maybe if you lose your first match then I think it can be a long wait.

I also really would like to see this Open Post Season High School tournament where freshman thru seniors and all classes could come to meet to see who the best is. This could be a close version of a Grand State event.