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Re: Outsider's observations about Kansas Wrestling [Re: Kale Mann] #200252 02/21/12 03:49 AM
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smackit Offline
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I didn't say Kansas was inferior or that Indiana has better wrestlers, I said they have a far better system for the state tournament, and they do. They really showcase the wrestlers, which they deserve for all the hard work and determination it takes to get to the state finals. I could really care less who has the better wrestlers, I was just saying that the state tournament is second to none.

Re: Outsider's observations about Kansas Wrestling [Re: smackit] #200257 02/21/12 03:56 AM
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Well you sort of hinted at that but don't worry, I don't think anyone on here took it that seriously or care much about Indiana wrestling. In my opinion any tourney that eliminates all eight first round losers from wrestling in the consolation is invalid anyway. Hey maybe thats why the NCAA tourney doesn't run that way, ya think??

Last edited by Westfahl; 02/21/12 03:58 AM.
Re: Outsider's observations about Kansas Wrestling [Re: ] #200263 02/21/12 04:19 AM
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Hi Andy. Hope you are doing well.

The only thing I can say about our state is that no matter how they do it, nobody likes it. I loved coaching in the Wichita deal with all the classes but one there. People all over the state griped until they broke it up. Now that they broke it up, people all over the state are griping about them not having them all together. I don't think they can win that deal. You are right though, good wrestlers come from all over the country and everyone thinks they have the best deal going. Missouri has a good deal in that Columbia is right square i the middle of the state and they have great hotel accomodations and can do a three day deal there. Wichita can do that but it is tougher for them or has been. I haven't been to the new places so I can't speak to it, but the old joint was pretty bad that you wrestled in and I coached in. That was a barn but could have been made to work. They will never please everyone though, I don't care what they do.

Last edited by Westfahl; 02/21/12 04:21 AM.
Re: Outsider's observations about Kansas Wrestling [Re: Westfahl] #200267 02/21/12 04:27 AM
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my son was fortunate enough to playfootball for a coach that pushed his players to wrestle. you could see the kids that wrestle become better football players. i have also talked to college football recruiters at wrestling tourneys. they know where to find tough kids.

Re: Outsider's observations about Kansas Wrestling [Re: rickybobby] #200268 02/21/12 04:28 AM
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Westfahl Offline
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You are talking to a true believer here. I am an absolute believer that nothing makes good football players like wrestling and vice versa. Your son played for a wise man, not all of them are that wise.

Re: Outsider's observations about Kansas Wrestling [Re: Westfahl] #200269 02/21/12 04:34 AM
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heard tim grunhard on the radio a while back and he said if it wasnt for wrestling he would not have been tough enoughto play in the nfl!

Re: Outsider's observations about Kansas Wrestling [Re: rickybobby] #200272 02/21/12 04:37 AM
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Yeah and that surprised me because he got on the radio two years ago and made fun of wrestling for twenty minutes. Funny how when you are trying to recruit some big linemen that wrestle, you change your tune a little bit. I like Timmy but he really badmouthed high school wrestling when he was on 810. Several coaches around here complained to them personally about it at the time. Glad he is a convert.

Re: Outsider's observations about Kansas Wrestling [Re: rickybobby] #200274 02/21/12 04:40 AM
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smackit Offline
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Its not invalid, it just means that you better be ready to wrestle Friday night or you go home. Only the best survive. Its awesome.

Re: Outsider's observations about Kansas Wrestling [Re: smackit] #200275 02/21/12 04:42 AM
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They do it so that they can eliminate one round of wrestling and make their tourney shorter. It does nothing to better the competition and if it had virtue they would do it at the NCAA's and in every other state in the country.

Re: Outsider's observations about Kansas Wrestling [Re: Westfahl] #200283 02/21/12 05:10 AM
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smackit Offline
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By the way I didn't hint anything about Indiana wrestlers being better than Kansas wrestlers, but they do have one true state champion in each weight class. when did we start talking about the NCAA's, I thought we were talking about high school wrestling.

Re: Outsider's observations about Kansas Wrestling [Re: smackit] #200285 02/21/12 05:18 AM
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Westfahl Offline
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That is a ridiculous way to run a tourney. If a quarterfinal loser has no chance to compete for third place then the back door of their tourney is meaningless. Silliest thing I have ever heard of. There is more to it than who wins the thing. Those other medals and the integrity of the meet are important too. They fail on both of those counts.

Re: Outsider's observations about Kansas Wrestling [Re: Kale Mann] #200293 02/21/12 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted By: Kale Mann
[quote=Husker Fan][
Quote:
This comment was posted earlier on this topic by Kale Mann:

Kale, I do not agree with you though on your last statement that I firmly believe most of the time the parents are more interested in the athletic scholarship for bragging rights than for the actual monetary value. I really do not think that is true. Yes, there is a great deal of pride that a parent takes in their child earning an award or scholarship. And I know we all including myself like to toot our own horn to a certain extent. However, the number and amount of scholarships available in a sport definitely makes a difference to parents. I think we can all agree how important a college education is to a young person today. In this new global high tech economy a good college education is imperative. I believe it is only going to be more important in the future. The cost of college has escalated and that rising cost trend will no doubt continue. College expense is a major factor for most families and the parents and students strive for as much scholarship money as possible whether academic or athletic. I believe that the number and amount of college scholarship available for wrestling does influence parental support directed to wrestling at early ages. I truly believe parental support for wrestling even at the early ages would be stronger if there were better opportunities available in both the number and amount of college wrestling scholarships.



Vince, I agree with most- if not all of what you said. I should have been more clear with my statement regarding scholarships as bragging rights. I was actually directing this more towards the football side of things and the idea of a "full ride" as opposed to wrestling. Wrestlers know (or should know) no one is going to be offering a full athletic schloarship. Division 1 wrestling teams only have 9.9 scholarships for the entire team (if they are fully funded) which means there isn't enough money to go around for the starters- let alone all the redshirts, back-ups, etc.

In my years coaching football I witnessed multiple times parents being upset with college coaches who were not offering full athletic scholarships- but instead were working with kids to get academic money too. So much so that despite the student athletes wanting to attend those schools they went else where.

I had one parent tell me their son was getting a "full ride for football" to Highland even though I know they can not offer full athletic scholarships.

I had another student who was offered a preferred walk-on to a major D1 program who he liked very much with every opportunity to compete for the athletic scholarship and his grades were certainly good enough to get him significant academic money- but his parents pushed him to the Juco ranks because they wanted the opportunity for the full ride in a couple of years.

I had another athlete turn down the full ride to a D2 school because he and his parents felt that he should go D1. He also went the Juco route and eventually did earn the D1 scholarship- but missed out on competing for national titles and playing close to home.

This does not include the parents who would talk about their VERY AVERAGE athlete like he was D1 material- and would then be mad because they didn't get offers for running 4.9 40's.

All of these kids (and many more I don't have the time to tell their stories) had good football careers and great memories from playing high school football- but parents blinded by the need to get the "full ride" often times made their senior years unpleasant experiences. That is what I was referring to.

Trust me- I hope my kids can get some scholarships- no telling how expensive college will be 15 & 17 years from now! We'll focus on the academics and have some fun in the athletics (hopefully). If they are my kids- and people tell me they look like me- no one is going to be knocking down their door to play football or basketball! Not too many needs for short, not too fast athletes at the next level!!!!


Kale:

I understand what you were saying better now. I was a high school football player and played one year of college football at KSU so I know what you are talking about with the football situation where there is an embarrassment of riches and a full scholarship is virtually assumed for a good player and only D-I will do.

It appears to me that your kids have a very good Dad who has his priorities correct. I think you can almost count that the cost of college will be at least double in 16 years which would mean approximately a 4.5% average inflation rate on these costs. We would be lucky if it was held to only a double in 16 years. This is one of the main reasons that I believe it is so necessary for the Kansas College Wrestling Fund to be a success. I really do hope everyone will consider becoming a donor to it in 2012.

Thanks for your feedback


Vince Nowak
Kansas College Wrestling Fund Supporter
Please join the fight with your contributions

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