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 Re: open rooms
[Re: doug747]
#211144
01/08/13 10:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 197
CWB
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My son and I have talked about this.He can get maby 20 mins mat time in mid school.Or we can get hours of mat time in kids club.If people do not think he will be going back wards in mid school they are nuts.If a real good kids runs moves with some one just learning,he will slow down his moves.This is why the best kids look for better kids,to keep getting better.We have 3rd graders in the room that the middle schoolers do not want to work out with.
I can tell you it is eazy for me to know what is best.My son would like to help his friends but we have tryed that.If we went to a big school,middle school would be better.But we do not.
What I want to know is this for the kids or for the schools.If it is for the kids it is eazy.Do away with this crappy rule.Let the boys that want to get chalenged look for better kids.We have and will look for team duels.This is the way we can figger out the team Idea with out mid school.
Charles Bradford
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Re: open rooms
[Re: shawnbudke]
#211145
01/08/13 10:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,377
ReDPloyd
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My recommendation or idea is to approach this from the perspective of what is best for the kids. We are lucky in the northeastern part of the state in that we can have our cake and eat it too.
Our MS season is only 6 weeks long and is over by Christmas. Our serious wrestlers actually get to do both the middle school and majority of the kids club season (just not at the same time). The only real big tournament that they miss if doing MS is the Kick off Classic.
This helps the sport of wrestling all the way around. I have seen the number of kids that come out for wrestling in 7th grade for Middle School and then join our club after the school season is over. It also gives our experienced kids a chance to learn leadership and how to work with the other kids that will be their team members in high school. I also see wrestling as a team sport so I think that is important.
I do not understand administrators in other parts of the state that say they want what is best for the kids and then are unwilling to change to a pre-Christmas season for the Middle Schoolers. Seems to me they are only paying lip service to the idea of what is best for the kids.
Bet those same administrators think it is a good idea to have 7th and 8th graders choose between wrestling and basketball. Having a pre-Christmas season allows the kids to try both if they want. Great post and I agree with everything that you have said.
Lee Girard
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Re: open rooms
[Re: CWB]
#211149
01/09/13 01:03 AM
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,066
doug747
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Charles I am flabbergasted that you would make such an absurd comment that would imply that YOU, a parent, knows what is better for your kid than a government school administrator.......how dare you.......;)
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Re: open rooms
[Re: doug747]
#211151
01/09/13 01:18 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 201
Tyson Schreiner
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Posts: 201 |
love it.... still laughing about our president post. liberals!
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 Re: open rooms
[Re: luellen]
#211153
01/09/13 01:24 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 201
Tyson Schreiner
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Creating an argument for sake of arguing. Sports fan knows MS , in the way that it is currently ran, is no benefit for even a partially skilled wrestler.
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Re: open rooms
[Re: Tyson Schreiner]
#211168
01/09/13 02:42 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 201
J. Storm
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Besides the Pioneer League, is there any other Middle School leagues competing after Christmas?
Jason Storm
Head Women's Coach Labette County High School
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Re: open rooms
[Re: J. Storm]
#211190
01/09/13 12:10 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 122
MSvikings
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The Flint Hills League starts January 21st and will end around March 8th. There are 3 schools who have wrestling in the league maybe a 4th I can't remember. The schools i know are Herrington, Council Grove, and Mission Valley. Our club will lose wrestlers to the Middle School program. My son is a HWT wrestler. He is only 9 years old but works out with a 7th grader. When the 7th grader leaves for the middle school season my son will lose his workout partner. The 7th grader will lose his work out partner also. Both wrestlers will be hurt with the late middle school season. My wife and I have already been thinking about middle school when our son is old enough. With being a HWT are there going to be kids to wrestle at the middle school? Is he going to have someone to workout with? I want him to be part of his school but I don't want him to back slide with his wrestling either. Hopefully things will change in the furture.
Josh Parker Mission Valley
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Re: open rooms
[Re: MSvikings]
#211192
01/09/13 01:01 PM
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 497
Travis Phippen
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It would be wise not to wrestling outside competitions during the middle school season
Last edited by Travis Phippen; 01/09/13 08:20 PM.
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Re: open rooms
[Re: J. Storm]
#211199
01/09/13 01:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 587
RJW1
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Besides the Pioneer League, is there any other Middle School leagues competing after Christmas? I think the NWKL and MCL do middle school wrestling after Christmas.
Rick Williams
Colby High School
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Re: open rooms
[Re: Travis Phippen]
#211200
01/09/13 02:09 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 292
master blaster
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In wichita there is no JH wrestling accept for the suburbs so I'm not familiar with JH rules. What if a kid never wrestles JH and only wrestles club? If the competion isnt good and they wont allow a kid to try and better himself why wrestle JH at all? Dont see how they could impose a penalty on you if you were never on the team.
Who run Bartertown!
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Re: open rooms
[Re: master blaster]
#211210
01/09/13 03:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,916
sportsfan02
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Dont see how they could impose a penalty on you if you were never on the team. They won't. It is only after you've joined the team that you are not allowed outside competition/instruction until the end of the season.
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Re: open rooms
[Re: elid2]
#211222
01/09/13 04:40 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 649
badbo
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Re: open rooms
[Re: RJW1]
#211224
01/09/13 04:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 201
J. Storm
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Posts: 201 |
Thank you, I was under the impression the Pioneer League was the only league that practiced after Christmas. However, I do think that all the leagues should be either before Christmas or after Christmas for some uniformity across the state.
Jason Storm
Jason Storm
Head Women's Coach Labette County High School
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Re: open rooms
[Re: sportsfan02]
#211225
01/09/13 04:58 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,326
Cokeley
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Posts: 4,326 |
Sporto, perhaps you can provide "proof or evidence" that the current rules are best for our kids. Please enlighten us!
I provided my evidence in my original post. Those are hard facts based on results. I didn't say the current system was "best", rather I said wrestling middle school didn't impede our wrestlers progress or development. This is slight twisting of the words. Middle school wrestling does NOT impede wrestlers progress and development, per se. The KSHSAA regulations applied to middle school wrestle absolutely impedes the progress and development of wrestling, both specifically and in general. There are ZERO legitmate reasons to prevent kids from getting outside instruction or attending outside events during the MS season. My proposal was to have the option to do both so that "club wrestlers" can do both without being exposed to KSHSAA sanctions. No one has ever justified the application these ridiculous restrictions. When you don't allow choice and there is no common sense behind the regulations it is time to remove the restrictions.
Will Cokeley
(708)267-6615
willcokeley@gmail.com
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Re: open rooms
[Re: Cokeley]
#211246
01/09/13 08:38 PM
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,066
doug747
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Posts: 3,066 |
The numerous valid points posted here on the side of "this rule impedes a wrestlers improvement" were brushed off as "not fact".
But Sportypants' statement that it does NOT, is displayed as fact.
Sportyshorts words=fact
anyone's words that disagrees with him=not fact
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Re: open rooms
[Re: doug747]
#211249
01/09/13 09:00 PM
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,916
sportsfan02
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Posts: 2,916 |
I can show you records of multiple X state champions all of whom wrestled middle school. I'm not sure how you prove to me that others were "impeded" but I'm willing to look at any evidence you have!
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Re: open rooms
[Re: sportsfan02]
#211253
01/09/13 09:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 171
Jeff Smith
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Posts: 171 |
I am going to retract my earlier comment about encouraging kids to take advantage of opportunities to better themselves with respect to organized practices and outside competition. I’ve understood these rules were in place and even though I believe there is some gray area when it comes to open rooms such as at Andale until these restrictions are officially changed at KSHSAA I guess it’s better safe than sorry. (I still believe KSHSAA is not actively looking for violators at the middle school level but are forced to take action when brought to their attention by our own??)
Fact is. These restrictions only hurt the Nate Fowlers along with the rest of the wrestlers competing in the late season. The solutions seems so simple and the results so attractive it is mind boggling. There is a better way!
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Re: open rooms
[Re: sportsfan02]
#211254
01/09/13 10:14 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,326
Cokeley
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Posts: 4,326 |
I can show you records of multiple X state champions all of whom wrestled middle school. I'm not sure how you prove to me that others were "impeded" but I'm willing to look at any evidence you have! Greg, I have never said that MS wrestling impedes the development of wrestlers. You are twisting my words! I am stating that if the regulations were lifted all wrestlers would benefit. Many MS wrestlers do NOT participate in their school's program because the missed events and workouts are not worth it to them. The MS room suffers by these leaders not being there to help develop the others. It is simply common sense that if you let wrestlers do both MS practice and Club practice along with MS events and Open events that development will improve for ALL wrestlers. I cannot give you facts because this is NOT ALLOWED but I am stating that if it was you would see some of the gap close between us and other elite states. Another way to see how KS matches up is to lift the travel restriction for HS wrestling, even if it is for only ONE event per season. Then we could take KS wrestlers to Beast of the East, Ironman, Powerade, RTOC, etc. We are robbing our wrestlers who work their tales off the opportunity to showcase and match their skills against the best.
Will Cokeley
(708)267-6615
willcokeley@gmail.com
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 Re: open rooms
[Re: RJW1]
#211255
01/09/13 10:18 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,010
GregMann
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Besides the Pioneer League, is there any other Middle School leagues competing after Christmas? I think the NWKL and MCL do middle school wrestling after Christmas. This is true. I do believe the MCL & NWKL will make the change in the near future as we continue to lose possible opponents due to the shift to before-Christmas MS wrestling. However, many on here do not seem to understand there as many good non-wrestling reasons not to change as there are good wrestling reasons. Of course, what would one expect on a WRESTLING forum? 
Greg Mann
Manhattan, KS
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Re: open rooms
[Re: Jeff Smith]
#211261
01/10/13 12:09 AM
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,916
sportsfan02
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Posts: 2,916 |
(I still believe KSHSAA is not actively looking for violators at the middle school level but are forced to take action when brought to their attention by our own??)
The impression I got from the incident described previously was that the wrestler's own school district imposed the sanctions on him after finding out he had been competing outside the middle school program. While I don't know for sure if that was the case, I think I can speak confidently that that is how our school district would handle such a situation if brought to their attention. Our club eliminates that potential problem by having a policy of not accepting middle school wrestlers during the middle school season. We not only encourage them to be wrestling with their school team, we EXPECT it.
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