I know I am nuts for planning this stuff already, but...I see that Liberty Nationals and the Topeka Tornado's tournament are scheduled for the same day. I sure hope one re-schedules.

These are both top (multi-state) tournaments and we were planning on going to both. I would be curious if they do not change where most clubs would be going. I would think our club would split with a few of the top kids going to Liberty and that would hurt the Topeka tournament.

It would have been nice to have a Feb. schedule that looks like Salina, Liberty and Topeka and then take a week or so off and hit Wichita Classic then the state tournament series. That would be a very competitive schedule to prep for State.

Hopefully either Liberty or Topeka will re-schedule.

I hate to say it, but don't look for it to happen...If they were in the same state, you'd probably have a chance, albeit slight, to have one of them move its date...However, they are in different states and each tournament in really pretty much different in its makeup of teams it gets...Topeka gets the majority of its wrestlers from Kansas and maybe a few from Nebraska/Oklahoma, while Liberty mostly gets Missouri, and some from Iowa...Basically, for those who live in the Kansas City area, it's going to be a toss-up as to which one to go to...

But I'll say this...If you are a Kansas resident and/or member of a Kansas club, it would be appreciated if you kept your money in the state and supported Kansas programs...

I understand keep Kansas money in Kansas, but you will get more of a national turnout at Liberty Nationals. Last year I believe it was mostly Iowa,Illinois and the more Eastern states. The kids at Topeka will most likely be the same at Wichita. Also, from what I understand, Liberty Nationals will be at Municipal Auditorium this year. (I could be wrong). So for KC area kids it will be right at home with almost no drive.

It is unfortunate. They are both great tournaments and we normally attend both. However, I think you have to keep in mind that the location of each tournament is one that has to be reserved well in advance. Changing the date may be an impossible task at this point. That space is in high demand.

I second Gorillahawk's thought. Keep your money in KS. One week isn't going make or break your wrestler!

My son is a MO wrestler and we attended both Tournaments last year. The Topeka Tournament competition was ok, we were disappointed about the whole experience. We had to camp out on the floor. That may be usual for that size of a Tournament I don't know, new to the sport. The biggest disappointment was the 13 hours that we spent at that Tournament for 3 matches. I thought that was absolutely ridiculous. We also attended the Liberty Nationals Tournament and my son wrestled 5 matches in about 7 hours. Needless to say, I’ll take my chances at Liberty Nationals. Don’t get me wrong, we’ve went to other KS Tournaments (KS TOC, Turner Invit. & etc) and had a real good time. That Topeka’s Tournament was just really bad.

Wow! Sorry to hear it was a bad experience. I have been to tournaments 1/3 the size and spent just as much time as we did at the Tornado tournament. No, we don't belong to the club running the tournament...so I am not talking out of defense.

No doubt that Liberty is a well run tournament and a great facility. They have much more room to operate in. I still vote that they are both great tournaments to prepare kids for State competitions. My son loves them both!

I also went to both. As for the amount of time between matches, That's just the way it is in any tournament and most sports. As for the amount of room, Liberty Nationals only had one set of permanent bleachers and a couple they had brought in. There were people all over the floors. Also at Lib Nat. I had to pay $5 for a stack of brackets, when all I wanted was one. Don't get me wrong I would still like to go to both tournaments. But I wouldn't make the choice based on space. I've been to the Topeka tourn. for three years now and if I have to make a choice I'll stay in KS.

LegRider your statement "As for the amount of time between matches, That's just the way it is in any tournament and most sports.", is incorrect. Most sports have time restraints that keep the games time to a minimal. You don't see a 13 hour football, basketball, baseball, hockey, and etc games. If a tournament is designed last that long, they would have sessions so you could leave and come back at a certain time or would be a 2 day event. You can't do that at Topeka's Tournament. Rest assure LegRider if any of those sports could last up to 13 hours according to your statement, NOBODY would want to play that sport. That is to much time for anybody to spend in a gym or field and then have a 1.5 hour drive home (my drive home). We arrived at the tournament around 7 am. My son’s 1st match was at 10:35 am, 2nd match was at 1:16 pm and his Championship match was at 5:40 pm, reviewed the tape to get my son's match times. By the time he got his Championship bracket and medal, we left a little after 7 pm. Add my drive home, I arrive at home a little before 9 pm. Topeka had bleachers that could’ve been pulled out but choose not to. I was resting on those bleachers while I was camping out on the floor. I don’t know the reason why, maybe safety reason, I don’t know. It would’ve been nice to have those bleacher pulled out instead of camping out on the floor. I think the problem with the Topeka Tournament was that they went past the cutoff for entries. I’m all for the club to make their money but not at the expense of dragging out a tournament.

You are correct, their were people all over the floor at Liberty Nationals which made it hard to see any matches. As far as the Liberty Nationals selling brackets, I thought that was tacky because even if you wanted to keep track of the matches, you couldn’t with all the people standing on the floor. I always bring my own brackets, fill them out at the tournament and then put them in my computer later. I was lucky because one of the coaches brought the brackets and gave me my son's bracket.

I agree jayhayes. Tournament directors who won't limit entries push people away from our sport, and it is very very dangerous to overload the facilities.

Dear jayhayes,
Maybe I was incorrect by mentioning most sports, I have been to many a baseball tournaments that last all day long and the next. At Liberty Nationals My son was not as fortunate as yours to be in the championship match (Congrats to your son!) but we also arrived at 7:00am, wrestled 5 matches, got out around 5:00pm, and drove 2 1/2 hours home. Your statement "if any of those sports could last up to 13 hours... NOBODY would want to play that sport. That is to much time for anybody to spend in a gym or field and then have a 1.5 hour drive home," is also false because we, wrestling parents, do it every year. We make the sacrifice. Some don't and that to is Okay.
As for Topeka going over their entry limit, if memory serves me correctly, Liberty Nationals also went over their cutoff by several hundred.
Don't get me wrong I would go to both tournaments if they were on opposite weekends. My whole point in posting was that the very reasons you listed as dislikes in Topeka's Tournament, Liberty Nationals was the same way.

LegRider
My son didn’t make it to the finals at Liberty Nationals, it was at the Topeka Tournament. At Liberty Nationals, he went 3-2, one win away from medaling. Also, my first post I had stated that my son had wrestled 4 matches, it was actually 3 matches.
Your quote
"Maybe I was incorrect by mentioning most sports, I have been to many a baseball tournaments that last all day long and the next."
You’ve made my point about making it a 2 day event. Granted this type of tournament isn’t a National tournament and doesn’t need to be two days. I bet that baseball tournament was ran in sessions, so you weren't stuck at the ballpark all day. Even if it wasn’t in sessions, he had a good ideal how long a game could last so you could leave and come back. You can’t really do that in wrestling because you never know what is going to happen. “All day” doesn’t mean 13 hours. You also have to remember, my son wrestled 6u, I can't imagine how long late the older kids were their. Again, I don't mind a tournament lasting a long time but 13 hour tournament needs to be a two day event. Like I had posted before we waited 4 hours between one match. That is alot of time wasted doing nothing. I'm not complaining about the drive home, so I probably shouldn't have mentioned that. We all have to spend time on the road to compete, that is part of the sport. Wrestling parents do make the sacrifice for their children to compete, we did at the Topeka Tournament. The problem is that type of sacrifice weakens the sport. Your not going to tell me that most parents would spend 13 hours in a gym every weekend and stay in that sport and then call it a sacrifice. What kid wants to be in a gym that long? My son was 6 years old when attending the tournament (2/03). He was ready to go home long before that tournament ended, around the 8th hour.
I don’t know if the Liberty Nationals went over the cutoff entries, I wouldn’t doubt it because their were a lot of people and wrestlers. The only reason I recall the Topeka going over the cutoff was because we were camping out on the floor next to the announcer and he announced the number of entries which was more than the cutoff number.

Just FYI...my son wrestled 10U last wrestling season and was in the finals match almost always. His final matches were almost always at approx. 5:00 pm...no matter how big the meet was. Our coaches always laugh at his being the last kid to wrestle and having workers pulling up tape around us. He wrestled a 64 man bracket at Liberty. He got beat out early...we were still there until close to 4:00. That is the nature of the wrestling beast. This sport takes all day. In Topeka, Salina, Manhattan, Liberty, Hutch...you name it!

I agree with most of what was said here about the length of the touraments. My son too was almost always the final match to wrestle in his bracket and had many hours in-between matches. I don't think this is only a Liberty Nationals or Topeka problem. It has happened at many of the tournaments we have attended. Many people keep saying "That's just the way it is." I have learned over this past year to accept that, because I don't think it is going to change. Don't get me wrong, I would love for 10-13 hours at a tournament to be changed into 6-8 hours, but I just don't see it happening.
Last year there were many posts on this subject and one posting did offer the suggestion of the split format. I really do not see how this could not work at the bigger tournaments.

wrestlingmom,
As long as clubs continue to support tournaments that exceed their facilities capabilities it will continue to be that way. Our club supports those tournaments that are well run either via not exceeding acceptable entry numbers or using a split tournament format.

You guy’s need to stop your whining, I’ve been involved in this sport for over 30 years, wrestling is a way of life… it’s something that you chose to be apart of. I currently have two boys at the upper end of their wrestling careers and it doesn’t get any better at the High school level. If your kids plan on participating at the next level then be prepared for long days in a cramped gym two or three hours from home, duals after work, not getting home till 11 or 12 o’clock at night. Bashing on these clubs for trying to put together competition for your kids is ridiculous. If you only new how many hours are spent by the countless volunteers that seem to give and not receive recognition for their dedication. Many of sleepless night’s listening to clubs beg to let little Johnny in your tournament because some parent was too forgetful to sign the sheet two weeks in advance of registration. Or weight changes at the last minute because someone decided to eat Twinkies the Thursday before a tournament. Club organizers try to accommodate everyone. And the last thing is while your driving home think about the people that are picking up the trash that you left or the mats that have to be hauled back to some high school 20 mile away all so you could spend your Saturdays in a gym for 10 or 12 hours, because the volunteers day has been going on for a good couple of weeks to prepare.

Mark Miller
Manhattan Wrestling

Your point is well taken. Hats off to the guys organizing, running, and working the tournaments. Some of us have been on that side of tournaments. I have worked tables and helped setup and tear down. It is a tremendous amount of work. I don't think all of us were whining. I think many of us were just trying to explain the same thing that you did a much better job explaining...that is...wrestling takes all day, week after week and a load of dedication. You either love it or you don't. Those working tournaments don't get enough recognition. Thanks for giving them some!

parkwayred,
Sorry I don't buy it. So the only ones that are dedicated are the ones doing it wrong? Why is it year after year we hear the same complaints about the same tournaments? Dedication is no excuse for not knowing the capabilities of your facilities and workers. The real reason these tournaments are run this way is either greed or poor management. I'm not recommending people whine about these tournaments either, just don't go. Patronize those tournaments that do it right.

We select tournaments based on the level of competition we feel they have to offer. Topeka is a great tournament for that. We took 3rd there, then took 3rd at state. We took 1st there, then became state champ. That is a pretty good reflection of what we will see at state...which is our main goal. I am pretty sure that the folks running the tournaments that we attend are not doing it line their own pockets. The profit made goes directly to their wrestlers through practice facilities, mats, singlets, sweats,etc.

The best point that you made is that we all have the right to choose the tournaments we support!

I still say anyone attempting to organize a wrestling meet deserves some gratitude.

Nothing worse than driving half way across the state for 1 or two matches(the more the merrier)it is after all about the compitition.I don't like sitting in a gym from morning till dark anymore than anyone else,but it's a small price to pay compared to the hours,and hours,of work and training the kids put in.The reward for that work is matches and winning matches.Shake em up and turn em loose.