Who cares, he won three titles. Check out the record book, it's in print. Have another beer.

I don't know who Chris beat his sophomore year, but Biles from Bonner Springs was stomping him his junior year in the finals, like 7-0, and had him stuck in the first period. Needless to say, Biles broke his ankle at the end of the first and ended up losing in OT. Biles made a gutty performance. Justin Ware showed me the Ark City tape. Maybe the same one you saw Padonk.

Either way, they both dropped to 160 senior year, and Hernandez smoked him, something like 15-6.

Hey a lot of us were there that night and saw that match. Biles didnt just give him that match, he got schooled for the last half of it and the overtime. You knnow when you win you win and when you lose you lose and there is just so long you can whine about it. I think the statute of limitations wore out on that match a while back. Hey Matt was a heck of a wrestler and he got beat (not just once by him)and that was the end of the deal there. They wrestled more than once you know.

Wrestling lover and dalefish:

Yes there are more people in the five and six a schools to go out for wrestling, but remember these schools host other sports and activities as well for those people to go out for. I went to a large 4A school in high school and was able to participate in three sports and most of our schho activities. Even at our schhol we were small enough that all of the activities tried to accomodate one another. In the fall most of the football and volleyball players were also part of the school musical, band, and etc. You do not tend to see that as much at the larger schools. Most people participate in only one or two activities. Sometimes there are some great athletes in those larger schools that don't even go out for the team due to their other activities. I grew up with a kid who went to a 6A school who was cut during basketball tryouts. He went on to play basketball in college thanks to being recruited through his AAU team. So maybe the whole thought that more people in the school automatically means they should have plenty of good wrestlers is a moot point. I am defniately not conceding that the smaller schools neccessarily have better wrestlers and the team argument is ridiculous. Wrestlingn is about the most individual team sport there is. Yes, good coaching can help a teams success, but in the long run it is the individuals and how hard they are willing to work.

Hovpen-
First off, no one ever said that Hoxie was God's gift to wrestling... Pretty sure we are just all congratulating them on a great season. Sorry that you think no school is deserving of congratulations except for Ark City. They were/are great yes and by complimenting Hoxie nobody is taking anything away from them...
So do you think every other school in the state should just drop their wrestling programs since nobody can compare to Ark City (that can soon change...Hoxie is getting right up there).
"Hoxie is pretty good for their size" is what you said, I am so tired of hearing that crap. Size of school had nothing to do with it. And I do not think that Ark City would have scored more points than that if they were in 321A. Maybe Ark City has only accopmlished what they have because they were in 5A, were there are less schools to spread the points around. Chew on that... I don't like or believe in these 321A vs 4A vs 5A vs 6A arguments, but since you are throwing them around...right back at ya!
By the way! Check your math skills. Hoxie just won their 10th team championship, since they have to "win 15 before they can shine Ark City's shoes" then they would only have 5 to go, not 6!
Ark City is good for the size of their school!
Sorry you are so anti-Hoxie, are you worried that they are catching up to Ark City?! You mentioned that Hoxie needs to watch out for Sainty, because they are catching up to them...well Ark City better watch out for both Sainty and Hoxie then in the team championship race!

I've congratuated a lot of schools. And I still think overall, 3-2-1A is weaker than 5a. Sorry everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot. Wrestling season is over. Now for America's sport, Baseball. I'm through with wrestling. Some of you guys been practicing takedowns for so long the smell is getting to you. And me. Bye now. You can catch me on the diamonds now, not around a mat.
p.s. I still think Hoxie is a good school for their size although I can't see them catching Ark City in my lifetime, or my grandkids.

Hovpen

This new math is tough for me, so I need your help in explaining how Ark City is so much better than Hoxie this season - if that is what you are arguing herein.

Newton Results (taken from Hovpen's web site)
Manhattan 173.5, Clay Center 134, Arkansas City 130, Bishop Carroll 129, Salina South 128, Norton 121

2003 5A state (taken from Hovpen's web site)
Arkansas City 132, Bishop Carroll 121, Salina South 116.5, KC Turner 105, Kapaun Mount Carmel 101,

2003 4A state (taken from Hovpen's web site)
Abilene 113, Columbus 100, Goodland 100, Clay Center 89,

2003 321A state (taken from Hovpen's web site)
Hoxie 218.5, Norton 144, Effingham 94.5, Oakley 77.5, Beloit 67

2003 Beloit Invite (from Les' info)
Hoxie 230 1/2, Manhattan 167 1/2, Clay Center 164 1/2, Colby 143 1/2, Salina South 114, Concordia 114, Abilene 106 1/2

So Manhattan and Clay Center beat Ark City at Newton and Salina South was 2 points behind AC at Newton and 15.5 behind at state. And AC finished slightly ahead of a tough Norton team.

But in what I would consider a tougher meet than 5A state - Beloit - Hoxie beat Manhattan by 63, Clay Center by 66 and Salina South by 116. And Hoxie beat Norton by huge points at the Hoxie Invite, Norton Invite and 3-2-1A state. And in a tight race at the P-Burg tourney.

5A's Kapaun was at the Hoxie Invite this year and, while they have a great team, they finished behind Hoxie, Norton, Oberlin and Oakley.

But Ark City is better than Hoxie this year? I'm not understanding the basis for your arguement.

Hovpen,

You make it sound like 321A is JV compared 5A. You said that in 1996 (the year Ark City scored 214)that they would have placed 14 and most of them would have been in the finals. But did you even look at some of the names 321A had that year?
Jeff Boyle, Bill Gabel, Travis Baker, just to name a few. While Ark City would have probably still won I am willing to bet that they wouldn't have been near 214 points in 321A that year.

You also make it sound like a fluke when a smaller school beats a bigger school in wrestling, but how can it be a fluke when they are getting beat by such a large margin and so often.

Hoxie was the best team in the state this year, so deal with it.

In order for Hoxie to catch Ark City, Hoxie is going to need some help from some other 5A schools. I think Hoxie was the better team this year, but Ark City won their division too, and it's hard to catch them at that rate!

Ark City's late 80's, early 90's teams were unbelievably good, they could compete with about any team in the nation. I don't think Hoxie's team this year is even close to some of those teams. I don't see this years Hoxie team with any All Americans unlike the past Ark City teams.

People are questioning Chris Hernandez's 3 state championships? wasn't he also a national champ!!
Maybe he took the bias refs with him to the national tournament!!

WoW Les Brown, U mean I had all those wrestling results posted on my web site. Aren't you going to miss that next year when I no longer cover wrestling except for the paper and just have a football - basketball website.

To Hovpen:
Absolutely no one will miss you � you are tired
PS: no one - maybe Prant Garker

Boy this is an interesting topic. The old which class is the best arguement. Honestly I can't beleive this gets brought up every single season. So while im here let me offer a little information. With the exception of 6A I think all the other classes have some claim to being the best. I exclude 6A becuase they have about 3 teams that are really good and that is it. Garden City, Manhattan, And some other I can't think of. Now the problem with this topic is that people are always comparing apples to oranges saying that this team beat another at this tournament so they are better. Well lets see to me the only way to prove that you are a better team than another is to beat them both in a Dual and at a tournament maybe even two or three. I beleive Les Brown did some researching and came up with some stats. Someone claimed that Ark City is the toughest in the state. And then through some magical equaltion some one came up with Hoxie being the best becuase they beat a team that beat another team and so forth. Come on now you can't do that. THat would be like me saying well Abilene toasted Clay Center at the state tournament yet clay center beat Ark City at the Newton tournament so that means that Both Abilene and Clay Center are better teams than Ark City. This is not neccasairly the truth. I think duals wise Ark City may have beaten Abilene and Clay or Clay could have beaten them. Case in point, and I will have to concur with many of the others, this year 2002-2003 Hoxie was the best team in the state, it hurts me to say that becuase I love my team so much but Hoxie was an unstopable machine. Now just becuase Hoxie was the best does that mean that 321A was the toughest class, absolutly not! Personally and this is just my opinion but I think I would say overall in terms of how many good team are in a class I think 4A was the toughest. You had Clay, Colby, Abilene , Goodland, Columbus, all excellent teams. Match up the state champions from the 14 weights of 4A against the lineups of any other class and duals and I think 4A will win out, but again strictly my opinion. Oh by the way Matchbox. Jake Kriegbaum and Tanner Gardner have wrestled before, granted it was freestyle but I'll leave it to you to guess who won that match

Nigel are you talking about the exibition match or the match where Gardner tech falled Kriegbaum at Southern Plains? I was happy to see Abilene win a state title again, but In my opinion Hutch, Garden, Manhatten, Ark City, Bishop Carroll, Hoxie and Norton were all better teams this year.
P.S. Kriegbaum is a great kid. One of the best I've seen in a while.

5A is weak.

Hey Westfahl---

The following is from your earlier post--- "Biles didnt just give him that match, he got schooled for the last half of it and the overtime. You knnow when you win you win and when you lose you lose and there is just so long you can whine about it. I think the statute of limitations wore out on that match a while back."

First, how can you say the statute of limitations wore out? That's the fun part of discussion boards, bringing up subjects, no matter how old they are...Second, who was whining about it? Sure, Matt was pissed when the match was over, but he accepted it - But he and everyone else in Wichita that night also knew that Hernandez was pinned ...Third, Matt went on to wrestle at the University of Pennsylvania (before blowing a knee) - Where did Hernandez end up at??? Fourth, just because someone brings up a match that was 12 years ago, doesn't mean that people shouldn't talk about it..

I was in attendance that night when Matt Biles basically went out and destroyed Chris Hernandez their senior year (1991)...As a matter of fact, I was matside taking pictures and somewhere in my files, I have the photos to prove that Hernandez was pinned...

Biles went out like a man on a mission and had Hernandez on his back in the first 20 seconds of the match...He had him in a half-nelson most of the entire 1st period, but the lead official never called the pin (the assistant official, however, was calling for it...Tim McGinnis, Bonner's coach at the time, was livid, and the Ark City coach and Hernandez both breathed a sigh of relief when the period ended...

Not long into the second period, he rolled his ankle and broke it...A tough break, but there is no way that the match goes into overtime and/or Matt loses that match if he could have stood on both legs...You have to give Hernandez credit, though, for "taking advantage of the situation."

I don't want to get into this pointless battle of the A's but i do have one arguement. You talk of there being more school to compete with in 321a then there are in any other A. Well you also have to remember that few of those schools are able to field a full team. Plus the teams that can field a full team sometimes have to put a fish in a weight class just to fill up the space. So the amount of teams has nothing to do with who was the harder class.

Just a note of information, Hernandez went to Oklahoma where he was 11-6 or so when he quit. Biles went to Penn huh and lasted a year. So you tell me whats the difference there.

5A is by far the worst.

Biles was at UPenn for a year before he blew out his knee, otherwise, he would have continued to wrestle...Plus, that's an Ivy League school, so he HAD to have great grades just to get considered to go there...I think a big difference there...

Another thing, I don't ever recall Hernandez competing on the national and/or world level...Biles won more than a couple national titles, including a cadet/junior title in greco, and he was a top 4 competitor in greco worlds...I think this pretty much speaks for itself...

5a is weak? KC Turner, Shawnee Heights, Paola, Ark City, Bishop Carrol, Kapaun, S. South
103-deshazer, metzler, bird
112-edgmon
119-gardner, knox
125-baldridge, cornejo
130-ashpole, wilderman, hulse
135-zousas
140-oliphant, bails, roath
145-harris, miller, jonas
152-mullins, pietzyk, hammett
160-hart, figge
171-payne, steinmetz, sponsel, malloy
189-richardson, monks, sponsel
215-no one outstanding
275-duffy, payne, voegeli