didn't melvin douglas go to topeka seamen? which is 5a I think.

Actually, I think that when Melvin Douglas wrestled there wasnt even a 6A Class. He was a 4A guy with 5A being the largest class.

That is back when all classes had an 8 man Districts, an 8 man Regional and then an 8 man state bracket with only the top 4 placing in state.

All of these comments supporting the 6a Tourney is proving my point on what kind of tournament I think it is. My point again is: 4a as a whole tournament is tougher and more enjoyable to watch than 5a and 6a. Iam not saying that the best kids are from 4a because I believe the best wrestlers are from the bigger schools and I have never said anything different. Your argument to this is that we have more kids at division 1 and doing very well and you have proved that on this discussion by naming all of wrestlers currently and in the past that have wrestled at the bigger schools in KS. What your proving is that you have one or two top wrestlers here or there, maybe this year you will have 15 top wrestlers that are better than anyone in any class but that does not make for a good tourney. No wonder the Colliseum doesn't make any money. I

Melvin Douglas went to Highland Park... not sure of the classification size back then though.

What everyone has been trying to say that nobody in 4A wants to admit is that maybe you have the tougher regional tournements, but every day all season long in the practice room is tougher at 5A & 6A because you have 50 to 80 kids trying out for 14 positions.

Your tryouts are at the regional & state tourney, a lot of 6A kids are wrestling at that level all season long just to be on the team. Thats why you see more of them being successful at DI.

4As big bitch has always been that some good kids dont get to go to state in 4A while someone with a losing record goes to state in 6A.

Try being in 6A and not even getting to wrestle varsity because your behind a stud and if you were on any other team you'd detinitly qualify for state and probably even place. It happens alot in 6A.

Bernie112 that is also a valid point. Many 6A teams are deep w/ lots of kids in a room. Then again some 6A teams arent, but a good amount have a large # of kids. I can give a good example of this. Nick Clayton(SMS) his sophomore yr couldnt break the varsity lineup because he had Ali Sultani(4th placer, SQ) at 130lbs, Stewart Bogart(4X State finalist, 2x champ) at 135lbs and Jong Kim(3x SQ) at 140lbs. He took his chances against Kim and got beat like a little girl by Kim in the wrestle offs. Clayton eventually found a spot at 145lbs and qualified for state despite being really underweight. He beat some darn good guys that like Sean Curran and Ryan Sondereggor that yr even though he couldnt break our lineup in 3 different weights. 145 was probably the weight that was least inviting to his body weight and strength his soph yr. I know that plenty of other smaller programs could be having this problem, but this is just an example of how good kids on 6A teams can get screwed.

Spikegreely-
The 5A and 6A tourney's competition and level of talent is sound and there is nothing wrong with it. What screws over the Colliseum is the terrible hospitality room, the disgruntled security staff, the overworked rude table workers, the crowded weigh ins, the horrendous facilities(bathrooms, drinking fountains, etc..) and how the finals r structured so u have to watch 3 state finals matches at one time. But like i said, there is nothing lacking in the excitement and barnburning intensity of the 5A and 6A wrestling talent.

Bernie112, you probably have a similar story about never seeing a varsity season. Maybe you could share it with us. And the comment about 50-80 kids going out for wrestling is ludacris. The only 6a school that I know of that even comes close to that number is GC. Try and name 5 schools that can put out that type of numbers year in and year out, you can't because there is hardly 5 schools in the entire state that can average an output of those type of numbers. No one is doubting that 6a is nails. Is 6a the best year in and year out? That is debatable

we have about 50+ kids come out each year, granted that the majority have never wrestled before, but they all want to be on varsity by the time they are seniors, which makes for some intense practices. I know we have two guys that lettered their sophmore year, and now seniors, and are on jv.

"What everyone has been trying to say that nobody in 4A wants to admit is that maybe you have the tougher regional tournements" (Maybe)

Bernie112 can't even admit that the smaller schools have tougher Regionals, no wonder he exagerates about the practices. I help coach at a competitive 6a school and is no different, it just takes more coaches to teach the rookies.

I would guess that a majority of the 6A schools in Johnson County have between 50 and 80 kids come out for wrestling almost every year.

I know that Olathe South has had more than 70 show up every year for the past 5 years. They had to expand the practice room because of it. They were using 2 seperate rooms for practice until the remodel.

What it all breaks down to is, most 5a and 6a teams are in big cities where wrestling isn't as popular, because all the media coverage goes to football,basketball, and baseball. I know that in Kansas City that "metro sports" the big supplier of high school sports hardly ever show wrestling(maybe once in a blue moon and the metro classic) where as in little towns where all these 321a schools are at there might not even be a local television station in the area that covers high school sports, so no sports get hyped up and everybody is willing to participate in all sports.

So whats the big deal if you have a tougher regional? If you deserve to go to state in 4a, then you will go, unless you choke. There are the occasional regionals where more than the 4 who make it are truely good enough to go to state, but that's in ALL classes. I see just as much talent, if not more, in 6a and 5a in any given year as I do 4a and 321a.

Kdogg way to come in and only read the last couple of post before saying something ignorant.

I'm the ignorant one? If you would read all the posts, you would see I've posted before on this subject.

Kdogg, so what your saying is, you have read all of the post here and this is what you had to say. You would have been better off reading the last couple of post.

Dude, your not making any sense.

If you think it's weak move to the city so you can go to state with all the sissy boys...

SMS has for the past 3 yrs at least had 60+ kids. bvnw was freaking packed the time i visited too. they had to have at least 60 kids too.

First, I'll address JJETC: Yes, I do have a story about never seeing a varsity season.

My Junior year, I was Varsity and got 3rd in state ( many years ago). The kid who was at my weight and ended up at jv all year was good enough to have placed at state and I know because I wrestled him every day at practice, all year.

My Senior year I moved up a weight class and the kid that was jv behind me the year before ended up getting 4th in state that year.

I got 2nd in state my senior year and once again the kid who was behind me also was good enough to have placed at state, but didnt even get the chance at varsity because he was behind me and it was his senior year also.

Why do I give a *$#@, because they were both good kids, they were both my friends and they both helped me become a better wrestler.

As for the 50 to 80 kids coming out each year being "Ludacris" as you put it. I dont know where you get your info on that, but you are absolutly wrong. Other people have already given examples right here on this thread and if you dont believe me or any of them then just call some of the coaches of the 6A schools.

Now for Spikegreeley. You said in your post that you help Coach at a competitive 6A school. It also says your from South East Kansas. I'm confused, I had no idea that there was a 6A school in South East Kansas. Wherever you coach, how many kids are on the team?

As far as the MAYBE thing, your really grasping for something to fight about there. If you have read all of the post, then you would realize that I have admitted and acknowledged in that post and previous ones that 4A has tougher Regionals.

Read that sentence again, with alittle less hate in your heart and realize that maybe and but in the same sentence usually means yes, but.

As far as exagerating the practices your either gona believe me or not, but its the truth, not an exageration.

End result of all this is 4A has tougher Regionals, but top 6 in any class match up pretty well. 4A more competition at Regionals to get to state, 6A more competition in the practice room to get there. SO WHAT DID YOU HOPE TO PROVE BY STARTING THIS THREAD?

Amen, Bernie 112. Amen.

Last year Bubba Schoenfeld (and his chin cup) went undefeated until his last tournament of the year, excluding all the matches he lost to his own teammate, Aaron Bingham. Bubba pinned Larry Perez, and was up 6-0 on Livengood (both state placers, I believe) until he got caught and pinned. Bubba is still one of the top six wrestlers in the state, yet because Bingham is fat, he is still dominating on the JV level.

Kyle Potter lost his wrestle off last week and is now junior varsity (for the time being). That's a state placer, who I guarantee could make it through your 4a regional, who is junior varsity.

Mil Phaneul is undefeated on varsity this year. He is above Garen Stacey, a two time qualifier who defeated a defending state champ at state last year, on the depth chart. Why haven't you heard of him? Because he's junior varsity at this current juncture to A.D. Mayes, who is 18-3 in his third year of wrestling. A.D., Phil, or Garen could all place at your regionals and go to state.

Spikegreely, you and your hateful posts, are officially fired.