Some of the records in 5a and 6a are a joke. Qualifying 16 of 32 really diminishes the glory of making it to state.

Cokeley how many do you suggest? What record do you think should qualify a wrestler? Should wrestlers just pad their record and eliminate regional competition? I would like to hear the alternitive from an expert. Please enlighten me!

Do you think you should go to state with a losing record? It used to be that only 8 of 32 qualified for state and only 4 medals were awarded. In 4a and 321a there are more than twice as many schools as there are in 5a and 6a. They should combine 5a and 6a at the very least. Compare KS to other states as far as population, number of schools, etc and you will find that per capita there are far more participants and medals awarded in KS. NY only crowns 1 state champ per division and KS crowns four. I realize that every now and then no matter what system is used there will be a "bad record" making it to state but look through the qualifiers and you will find 5a and 6a littered with .500 and losing records. I didn't claim to be an expert but if you think that I am that is fine with me.

Mr. Cokeley-

For ONE, a kids record doesn't mean anything when they step on the mat at regionals or state, because anyone can be beaten at anytime.
For TWO, some of these kids that might have a losing record going into state may have very stiff competition during the regular season because of the tough tournaments and teams they face in duals throughout the year.

I agree that 321A regionals are tough and that it is very difficult for a wrestler to make it to state, but in 5A & 6A there are very good wrestlers that come out of these two divisions. If a kid does not deserve to be at 5A or 6A state, as you are implying, the experience for these young wrestlers is something that they will always remember, even if they do lose.

So if you don't make it to state you don't feel rewarded for working hard and participating. Maybe then everyone should go to state. Everyone should be rewarded for working hard but that isn't how life works. There should be some level of prestige to qualifying for state and I think it is dimished when you take 1/2 of the total participants. Find me another state that does that. Why should 1/2 of the 5A and 6A participants qualify for state but only 1/4 of the 4A wrestlers? How is that fair? There really isn't an advantage in an individual sport as far as how big your school is. So I don't really understand the rationale behind the disparity between classes.

How about creating a 4.5a classification?

cokely you have to realize that 321a is just filled with a ton of little schools so it would be impossible for half of them to go while 5a and 6a is compromised of fewer larger schools, so you have to consider it's mostly harder to make it onto a varsity squad on a 5a or 6a team because 3 times as many kids are going to be coming out for the team than at 321a and you have to just realize that a 8 man state tourney would stink because it would be over in a matter of hours.

The only way to really resolve this situation is to combine 5a and 6a, so that way you can have a 16-man regional bracket instead of an 8-man bracket.
Personally, I think this should be done when you look at how many kids have losing records in 5a and 6a. A combined 48 kids going to state this year have losing records in 5-6A, compared to a combined 13 in 321-4a. Something just doesn't seem fair here.

you could also look at the 321a that has smaller towns and less population but still manages to make teams and present them well at regionals and state

Who cares!!!!! It is every kids dream to make it to and win state and they should have the chance. Plus it wouldnt matter if every kid that wrestled in 6a went to state the best six are still the ones getting the medals.

Does this thread fall under "class" or "size" envy categories?

Say whatever you want about size differences, levels of competition or whatever; any system that lets HALF of the kids in any division into the State tournament is wrong. We have four divisions in Kansas for less than 200 wrestling programs. California has well over 1,000 schools and one class; Iowa has well over 300 with three classes (including a top class of 64 schools!), etc. Combine 6A & 5A!

You wanna increase the quality of wrestlers in these larger school... Try increasing the participation level... It is embarassing that Schlagle a school with over 1,100 students struggle to get 10-15 wrestlers... Maybe we can come up with stragities to increase the participation level in these larger mostly city schools.

The bottom line is this is for the kids, it is not for the spectators or some mythical prestige factor between states. It is high school sports, it is about creating memories for kids that will last the rest of their lives. This isn't world peace or life and death, just a great moment for some kids that help build their self-esteem and give them a thrill of participating on the big stage. If kids aren't that good on the mat and somehow manage to get into the show, they will get beat in the first round and you will have just the elite records wrestling that you crave so much. New York does what they do because they have no money and can't afford to have more than one tourney. God help us if we start modeling our things by New York standards, they have some of the worst schools in the country and some of the most inane ideas of any schools in the nation. We are doing just fine and we don't need to please anyone but our kids. It is about kids not us adults.

Well put Westfahl!!

Why did KSHAA do away with the sub-state concept?

Open up your eyes... The more people go to state the more money well made by addmission, sales, etc...

But I don't think its a bad thing to send top 16 to state. We should do anything that will motivate more kids to stay involved in our sport.

When you factor in travel expenses and food and all that goes into moving that many people around the state it just made more sense to put sixteen man brackets at the state tourney and in a sense kill two birds with one stone. The state reinburses schools for travel expense and it was just too costly to wrestle another tourney. Trust me as a coach it was soooooo much better when they did away with that tourney. There was no reason for it and it makes for a better state tourney with sixteen man brackets.

if you have a problem, move.

that would solve it???

Look at dodge city's 152 pounder. He's barely 500 and he was a regional champ. He beat some good wrestlers to earn that.