I think that one of the worst things about having all the classes together is how long it takes. By the time you reach state most people are rooting for an individual. Finals take over 3 hrs with all the classes together. That is ridiculous! No one likes to sit in one place for over 24 hrs in a weekend, yet that is what you are forced to do by having all the classes together. Also, The award ceremony should be a thing of great honor and prestige. Currently it is more a matter of how fast they can get the medals out. I would much rather see single class state tournaments.

RJW:
The only Kansas state tournaments I have ever coached at have been at Hays. The only time I was in Wichita was when I was still in the media in 1998. I thought the facility was a joke, the non-KSHSAA staff hard to work with and the overall treatment of everyone deplorable. From where I sit, all of the reasons are plenty to move the tournament.
Find the right facility (Expocenter, Bramlege, Allen Fieldhouse, whatever) with the right people running it and a multi-class tournament will work. I have seen it happen.
As for Hays, about the only thing I would change would be for the finals � why not open up the floor bleachers and let some of the crowd down there? Hays is great, but without a crowd down there, that one mat is sitting in the middle of a big empty.
Just a thought...

I agree with Lion Pride. Kansas needs to cut back the # of Classes for H.S.Wrestling. 2 would
be enough that would be about 100 wrestlers per
class in each weight. To be named a State Champ
you should have to be better than just 32 other
Varsity Wrestlers. Take the 30 4A schools with the lowest enrollment and add them to 321A and
put the other 31 with 5A & 6A and have them go
at it all in 1 loacation. Now that would be an event to see! Also add a Dual Championship.
Just my opinion.

I agree lets reduce the number of classifications throw all classes into one bracket and get it on. Then we could truly have a State Champion. It would be a long tournament but it could be held in one place and it would be tough. Or even combine 4a, 5a, and 6a into one bracket. I bet nobody wants to do that though. I see the point that Coach Biems has and I have changed my thinking in that maybe separating is good but I do not think that the state would want to pay costs of several venues. JUST SOME THOUGHTS TO CHEW ON!!!!!!!!

Moving the site out of Wichita would be as silly as all get out... When we watch several mats with seeing several great wrestlers that is where all the talk and hype of a possible "Grand State" originates... We see the 4a, 5a, and 6a championships and wonder who would the true state champ be.

I think the KSHAA would like it moved so we quit talking about and applying pressure for a grand state.

Rick,
One of the main sticking points to renewing with the Coliseum is that Coors paid to carpet the Coaches/workers hospitality room and now the Coliseum people don't want KHSAA to use it. An offer to pick up the cost of the hospitality room was via the Sedgwick Co. Sports Commission. Of course the offer is moot if they don't have an area to have the hospitality room.
You're right we hear the same complaints about the facility and staff at Topeka for kids state. I for one can't understand why people think it's their right to sit in the aisles.

Put 5/6A together, 4A seperate, 3-1Atogether rotate 4A and 3-1A between Topeka and Hays. Put 5 and 6A in Manhattan, Lawrence or Kansas City.

Thoughts:

Think the 2 classes an exceptional idea. Split 4A down the middle, send them up and down. if need be, take tournament to 24/32 man bracket and let the best emerge. That would be exciting!

KSHSAA needs a Dual State. I can't think of any true reason why one can't be worked into the existing schedule.

As to facilities amenities/tournament management/comfort levels: as long as the wrestlers are safe and there are no inherent saftey issues with the facilities or tournament management everything else is cosmetic. Tournament efficiency is not a facilities issue, but a personnel issue which is more a KSHSAA concern of hiring the right director and crew.

I figure the important thing was/is the wrestling...everything else is just gravy.

It is hard for me to imagine that any coach or wrestler is happy with the 456A tourneys at Wichita. There needs to be some answer to make this a better environment. In my opinion, the answer is splitting it up among 2 or 3 sites. I think a lot of 4A coaches want our own site and several of us are convinced that this is something worth fighting for.
Can the problems be fixed without splitting it up???-Maybe, but I just don't see it. The only way would be to make it three days with a varied schedule like some other states do a combined tourney or something----well actually, forget IT-- just split it up.

One more thing--- For all of you think we need fewer classes so it will mean something when you win state are crazy. It means something to be a state champ now. We don't need to reduce the number of kids who have success in wrestling by only having one or two state champs in each weight state wide. We don't do this in other sports and shouldn't do it in wrestling. These ideas are insane and would do nothing positive for our sport. (Push for a later grand state if that is what you want to see, but don't destroy our sport by reducing the number of wrestling classes) Lets look at the real issue here, which is why we should or shouldn't split up the Wichita mess.

There is significant issues facing KSHSAA right now. The current fiscal crisis, that will only get worse in the near future, facing the schools is a significant concern. Hence why Regionals are based on pure geographic considerations and not "strength" or "historical" considerations.

I personally believe that splitting up the state tournament venues would be a significant mistake. Both for the good of the sport and for the value it provides the attendees. I believe that there are two separate issues: Facilty value (KSHSAA primary concern - it has to be) and the management issue of that facility. If both can be rectified to the KSHSAA favor (economically) it makes sense to keep all three classes in Wichita. But, fiscally speaking it does not make sense to conduct multiple venues. You are spreading the dollars too thin for KSHSAA to make the profit necessary.

The question now is "Why is profit important?" That is a reality and KSHSAA must make sensible business decisions. The other component that they need to address is the marketing of wrestling as a sport. The media coverage (newspaper, Statewide/Live Finals televised, etc.) will come out of this. We all can assist here thru the KWCA and the school administrators group.

Finally, I agree with Mr. Shea that I wish KSHSAA would go to two classes. I believe that you would see the interest, fervor, and attendance at the Regional and State tournaments increase. With Class I (large) with 80 schools and Class II with approx 120. Eight Regionals, with top three coming out to a 24 man bracket at state. This works in other states - limiting the numbers increases the interest and will significantly increase the KSHSAA gate.

And it is important to "mean" something as a wrestler to make State a tough plateau to reach. It is also exciting to sit in a 20 team District in Iowa and have over 1,000 people in the gym or attend the Nebraska state finals with 15,000 lining Devaney Center.

Whatever the solution - and I realize that there is a broad spectrum of opinions - KSHSAA needs to move in the direction that is best for them fiscally and the sport as a whole. When that decision is made we all need to get behind it - regardless of our opinions - to move this sport upwards and onwards. Participation is increasing in the kids rank - our challenge is to translate that to increased numbers at the High School ranks.

And Dual State is a WONDERFUL idea. That is a suggestion we should ALL get behind when this thread is finished. Good Luck to all and to Rick.

Richard-
I can't forget a lot of the matches your talking about because I didn't see them. I did see the 4A matches you mention, but just didn't get a chance to see what is going on on the other mats a lot of the time. I know there are good things going on at the 456A tourney right now and several have left me with a lot of memories, but overall it is a poor situation for a lot of the people invloved. I know there are coaches who do not favor splitting the tourneys up, but I also think several of us are in favor of a 4A on its own format.

how do u figure having top three in each region is fair? So ur saying that in the consolation finals, that the kid that loses doesnt get to go to state? Unless u put it in a pool format and that wouldnt work out at all.

To do a 24 man bracket, yes fourth place would not qualify for state. It would make an exciting consolation final. The other option would be to do a 16-man bracket with "true seconds" at Regionals - wherein if you lost the final but had not wrestled the third place guy - you two would wrestle for the state berth with the loser staying home. (multiple states have this format). But, I was deferring to Mr. Shea's example and didn't want to get totally crucified by you Suh!

I just reread your post...with a 24 man bracket you either give the eight Regional winners first round byes (see the NCAA brackets - each weight class has a different number of competitors). It is double elim all the way out; therefore you would not "pool" the tournament. Does that make sense?

I think that there has been allot of good ideals about what to do with the state tournament. But I think there are allot of thing that most people don�t think about. Topeka and Salina are great places to have a state tournament. It is my understanding that the KSHSAA don�t put on any of the state tournaments they just administer the tournaments. But my question to everyone is who will host the tournament. Who is the person that will organize the tournament and have every thing set up and ready to go? What 4A teams are close enough to Salina to put on this tournament? That is if you have 4A in Salina. It is easy to sit back and say lets have it at this place because it is a great place to have a tournament. But having quality people step forward and say I will be in charge of putting on a state tournament is another thing. This is one of thankless jobs that nobody wants to do. I think allot of good comments have come out of this topic. Coaches make sure you bring these comments up when you have your KWCA meeting at your regional tournament

I was wondering how many people associated with 4A wish to split up the classes?

How many people in 5A and 6A wish to split up the classes?

Seems to me that most 4A wants to split while most 5A and 6A want to stay.

I think before you can start talking about moving certain classes to certain places, we must fix the 5A and 6A ordeal. 8-man brackets at regionals???? Are you kidding me???? I wrestled 321A last year, and I had 18 kids in my bracket, so 4 kids had a feather match. What I've seen over the years is kids with losing records make it to state in 5 and 6a, because if there are two teams that don't have a guy at a certain weight, than a kid only has to win 1 match to make it to state. That's prestigous???

We need to keep 4A 5A and 6A in the same place it is great to be able to watch the talented kids from the three classes - would like to have all six classes.

You know it is funny. People rag on 5 and 6A but I don't think you would want to run out there and dual their state champs just every year. Over the years I have coached in every division in the state and they are all very very tough. I see kids winning each year in every class that may not be quite as good as someone winning some other class. WHO CARES!!!! We are in the business of providing opportunities for young people. That is why wrestling exists, not to satisfy some silly need to be presitigeous or whatever. This is about kids and if we can provide this experience for a lot as opposed to a few then good for us and better yet GOOD FOR THEM!