Just to set the record straight; PBS announcers indicate there was a two count for near fall after Owings headlocked Madden. I had 1 full count in criteria, before the shoulders came out of criteria. If you notice, back points were being counted with the right hand and 2 takedown points for RED were awarded with the left hand AFTER Maddens' back came out of criteria. Awarding the takedown points WAS NOT and CANNOT be assumed to be a count in criteria. One count/no back.

Dont deny it owings was robbed.....and he wrestled a hell of a match to come back from 5 down...only to have it stripped away

haha......clay won, its over, the reff called a great match, your just a sore loser. way to go clay madden. 2x state champ!!!

IM not taking anything away from Clay...he is a god kid...wrestled real well, but there was a two count, that was not compensated for in the score. that is the only question im addressing.

I agree take_it_too_em.

I am looking forward to seeing the smoky hills TV production. I thought the nearfall was obvious. My question isn't if the points were awarded. After all you should know the answer to that but apparently PBs agreed with most of those in attendance that "it should have been" awarded.

By the way, overall I thought the officiating was really good and I was surprised how well the 2 ref thing worked. It seemed the ref took the inititive to ask the 2nd refs opinion when he was in doubt. This seemed to work a lot better than waiting for the other to offer an opinion. I only saw about three calls that I thought were obviously bad all week with the Owings one standing out the most.

If I was Plainville I would of wanted back point's, but the camera on PBS caught it all. No Back points. In wrestling 1 + 1 doesn't equal 2. and 2 + 3 doesn't equal 5 etc. etc. The ref did his job.

I want to add to my comment about the ref did his job. He did, the PBS announcer didn't. If PBS wants my money next year, Hire announcer's and not wantabe ref's.

I was not at this tournament as I was at the Kansas Coliseum.

How many PBS announcers were present? I know at least one who was present is a former 3-2-1A undefeated State Champion.

I do not know which announcer is being referred to, however if it is the one I am familiar with, I would trust his opinion, and would certainly continue my support of Public Television as this individual does much to support the sport of wrestling in Northwest Kansas.

I am eager to view the PBS tape for myself.

Many point's are awarded on judgement call's. I watch PBS today and the ref. gave points as he saw it from his angle and judgement. I don't know who the PBS announcer was, but he definitely didn't watch the replay that he wanted so badly, or he saw something that wasn't counted or just didn't want Madden to win.

I be wrestling, don't suppose you just didn't want somebody to win too?

I was the announcer that made the remark concerning the apparent two count.

I saw the exchange in person and saw it again on the replay. I felt it was a two count and I expressed it on the broadcast.

Perspectives and opinons can vary. If it was that obvious of a call (either way), I doubt there would be this much discussion over it.

Kevin, I will obtain a copy of the tape and will watch it again. If I was incorrect, I will certainly admit it.

_______

On a related note - I felt that we did a pretty good job on the broadcast, but as always there are things that we could do better. Feedback is an important tool in this process. Feel free to provide any feedback you wish by dropping me an e-mail at j_brown@st-tel.net or give me a call at 785 460 2435. I'd be happy to visit with you in this regard.

I Be Wrestling - I hope you will touch base with me. If my commentary is as bad as you say, I'd prefer to step away from the broadcast in lieu of you pulling your advertising support from the event.

I feel our sport deserves to have this type of coverage and it takes a significant amount of money to allow Smoky Hills Public TV to underwrite the cost of production. In short every penny counts.

If you feel as though I and my style are not appropriate - just say the word and I will ask to be removed from the broadcast team for future coverage. I am not a trained broadcst personality - am just a huge fan of the sport who hopes that my knowledge base provides some value in the coverage of the sport we love. So please do not penalize Smoky Hills PTV or the wrestling community at large, for a complaint you might have with me.

I watched it today and thought you did a great job Les, keep up the good work, and thanks for taking the time to broadcast the event.

Les is a human wrestling encylcopedia. I challenge anyone on the forum to try and cover the wrestling action with the knowledge of Les. I think he does a superior job, and I encourage you to keep broadcasting as long as you can. I bet given 15 minutes Les could give you the top 3 placers from any weight class in 321a in the past 15 years.

I am confused

In the replay that Les did it shows the ref counting 2 then holding up two points. Did the scorers do give him 2? or are you saying it should have been 3 points?

Les i saw it and thought you did a good job. Mark wessel told me that you were one of the announcers.(I aksed him who you were after you made a comment about me and that guy that ref d the abilene chapman duel) which i saw him at 321a he did a great job.

Phil however did not.
Phil has been kicked out of his own town as a ref he needs to find a new job. THis one is not his cup of tee. He screwed me a few times in highschool and i was not happy to see that he is still screwing kids 5 years later!!!!!

I assume that you are talking about a different Phil, because I have no idea what your talking about.

Well guys you must remember this same ref robbed Jason Stahl of a possible state championship 3 years ago!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lucas b baker:
[QB]
Les i saw it and thought you did a good job. Mark wessel told me that you were one of the announcers.(I aksed him who you were after you made a comment about me and that guy that ref d the abilene chapman duel) which i saw him at 321a he did a great job.

Lucas - I appreciate the compliment, but I can't take credit where it's not due. I was only at the 321A tournament as a spectator -- from 103# friday morning until Sprigg ripped my heart out saturday night. Based soley on the attributes of age, weight, and hair (or lack thereof in some cases), I would guess the official you meant the compliment for would be Kevin McCullough. And I would agree, he did a great job.

Les - I haven't seen the replay yet, but I have always enjoyed your telecasts in the past and I'm sure this one was no different. I was thinking you mentioned at Hays that it would be possible to get a copy of the quarterfinals on tape, too?? I would like to see the Baker - Weatherbee match again. Another thing I want to see is the finals match with Annon and Orozco. I'm still wondering how the heck Annon countered the deep double leg on the edge of the mat to come out on top.