Gut - I think maybe the rhetoric around here does need to be toned down a couple of notches but there are better ways to get honey than just giving the ole bee's nest a good whack. I think you want to see Kansas kids excel, as we all do, but I think you would agree that there is SOME good neutral wrestling going on in Kansas. I watched our 112 lb kid bump up to 119 for Brute and put on a takedown clinic on an Iowa kid in the Semi's. Iowa was a stud and there was no way he was going to get turned until he got caught a little out of position on a take-down and straight to his back he went. That was some good mat wrestling set up by some good footwork. Is there room for improvement in Kansas wrestling? Sure. Should we be looking at ways to improve? Yep, but all in all I would say that Kansas is holding her own pretty good.

kswrcoach ,
I don't know a gutwrench. I also don't know your identity. I heard rumor that you might be Michael Jackson formerly of the Neverland Ranch. If not ,I'm truly sorry.

Coach Sonderegger

nice credit to KS style from the MO fans on their site.

subject: STALLING!!!

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They STALL! Ok, I said it! But, what is a "stall" anyway? The way they use it, it's just another form of Offense. Yeah, St. Louie Refs would have a field day calling STALL after STALL (at the MO-KAN Classic). But they would be run out of town before the night was over. KAN Wrestlers STALL just enough to lull you into an Offense then they HIT YOU with a power-counter, counter-scramble, and if you aren't ready to rumble, they'll spoil your day.

fudge tunnel

That's one KS can do....is ride on top.....I hate giving KS any kind of due - **** Jayhawkers.

it's fun to watch the KS fans scream and cry on the other side - like last year when Shaffer pinned a 2x state champ in the first period. It's definitely worth the time to check it out.
_________________

Who'd he pin last year? What classification was he?

Why don't we setup an All-Missouri vs. All-Kansas wrestling show down. The whole state involved and then we'll show you who is the boss. The state of Kansas has some weaker wrestling in the KC-Metro area as compared to the rest of the state. Unlike Missouri where the best wrestling is in the KC-Metro area, so not a good comparison there.

all of missouri thinks we're not good huh?

MartyAz


Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 18

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:41 pm Post subject: KAN CAN

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Those KAN "boys" CAN wrestle and rumble and scramble and win. Do not underestimate them, no, no, no. I really admire their toughness and athleticism. Any of the MO "boys" overlook any one of the KAN boys or show up not ready to grapple will (can) be upset. There is no quit in them KAN boys, even when behind in the last period. Some of our most "elite" MO wrestelrs have had their skills and wills severely tested.

where'd that come from?

subject: STALLING!!!

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They STALL! Ok, I said it! But, what is a "stall" anyway? The way they use it, it's just another form of Offense. Yeah, St. Louie Refs would have a field day calling STALL after STALL (at the MO-KAN Classic). But they would be run out of town before the night was over. KAN Wrestlers STALL just enough to lull you into an Offense then they HIT YOU with a power-counter, counter-scramble, and if you aren't ready to rumble, they'll spoil your day.

fudge tunnel

That's one KS can do....is ride on top.....I hate giving KS any kind of due - **** Jayhawkers.

it's fun to watch the KS fans scream and cry on the other side - like last year when Shaffer pinned a 2x state champ in the first period. It's definitely worth the time to check it out.

funny that the only credit on the Missouri Site is from a guy that posts on here and reads everything we write.....

O MY GOD MISSOURI DOESN'T LIKE THE WAY WE WRESTLE!!!!
I don't really care about what MO thinks about Kansas wrestling...so I dont know why you had to bring that up Gutwrench

PS: I hate you

I don't know what your talking about when it comes to us having no use for being good at riding. I feel like I'm good on my feet, but I'm also good on top. There have been a couple of times when I was unable to take my opponent down in the first period, and I was unable to win the coin toss, I was forced to ride the guy out so I didn't give him the first choice in the second overtime. And how many college matches have been won because of the riding time point.

And if you haven't seen a good high crotch done in a while, I ask you to watch me wrestle sometime. I think I can hit some pretty nice one's, and you can say that Kansas kids don't count, but I did some pretty nice one's at nationals. And just so you know I wrestled guys from Missouri, California, Iowa, and Oklahoma, good wrestling states.

And wanting to see a high crotch may help the argument established by Mike Church.

Gutwrench is in the Hall of Fame??? Oh yeah, I remember...Building built by Gutwrench, Rawlings and Farber Construction Co.

Give me a break...if you are really interested in improving KS wrestling AND you are in the Hall of Fame, why isn't your attitude more positive and instructional, rather than (your words) challenging, sarcastic and the use of "caustic wit".

Without sounding repititive, arguing with this guy and acbulldog is much like throwing peanuts to the monkeys, it just makes them come back for more. What a waste of time and energy, which could probably be spent helping wrestlers improve their style of wrestling...wasn't that your point?

Your point got hopelessly lost in your attempt to anger and infuriate...congratulations!

INTERNET TROLL ALERT = gutwrench1
Internet Trolls

Here's the dumb part; Gutwrench has tried to be positive and instructional. He tried to point stuff out that should be corrected. But rather than pay attention you guys all got defensive and insulting --- how dare he suggest that Kansas wrestling is not THE ABSOLUTE BEST IN THE WORLD???!!!!!

I'm not going to say who's right or wrong and I'm not going to start a whole other argument. But for crying out loud, have an open enough mind to actually listen in the first place and we won't get these threads that turn into elementary school arguments.

And as far as the stats at the top of the page, one question: Were they wrong? That's all I'm asking; were they wrong?

No one ever said Kansas wrestling was the best in the country, in fact nobody has ever suggested that. However gut seems to think that we are somewhere near the bottom based on "our" style which really isn't "Kansas" style, there are plenty of teams in Kansas that are known for being good neutral wrestlers. I think our national results this year speak for the quality of wrestling. Not only that but Mr. Akin himself who has far more authority in the world of whos qualified to wrestle in gut's sacred DI level even admits that he would recruit many kids from this very state. So to that I will speak on behalf of Kansas, and I will apologize to Gutwrench for us not being the Number 1 wrestling state in the country, because apprently we don't wrestle the way he thinks we should.

VS Vike Coach: How do you expect our state too take it when some guy we don't even know starts telling us that our style of wrestling is wrong, and that any other state that wants a trophy should come here. I think we have a right to get defensive.

I agree with Curtis here on a serious tone. How would you take it, if someone you didn't know came into your wrestling room and was telling you that you cannot coach, you're doing it all wrong, and starts explaining to you about every little detail you're doing wrong and how it should be fixed, then you hear them tell their wrestlers that if they want medals they should wrestle your team because it's inferior to theirs and will dominate them and win in every matchup.

Can you honestly tell me that you would find no offense in that and just let it happen? No you can't, you'd ask for credintials and then tell them to leave.... am I not correct?

Vikes the dumb part is when gutstench started the initial thread all Kansas coaching and wrestling sucked. His position, after being confronted changed to the only good wrestlers produced in Kansas were those that had wrestled for Klemm. When the stats (many posted by gutstench himself) showed Kansas to be excelling on a national level then he moves on to the quality of teams. I don't think anyone minds objective critiques of Kansas wrestling but this guy has no clue. I don't believe from what he has said that he has ever coached in Kansas. As to his being a member of the Hall Of Fame well hey, this is the internet, aren't we all members of the Hall? This guy is likely someone from a neighboring state just trying to cause trouble.

wow...............

Now what side of the coin are we talking about?

gutwrench1 Member Member # 4202 posted March 09, 2005 03:05 PMMarch 09, 2005 03:05 PM Here's the other side of the coin to a subject I started about KS wrestling turning off DI coaches. These are the numbers of NCAA DI qualifiers by state. KS does exceptionally well for such a small state coming in at 13th with seven qualifiers. I believe those kids are Jacob Klein (4A),Shawn Bunch(6A), Joe Johnston (6A), Scott Coleman (6A), Justin Dyer (6A), Matt Murray (4A), Jake Kreigbaum (4A). Can't argue against facts like these. Kansas wrestlers are cutting it at the highest levels and more should have the opportunity to do so. These guys are a credit to their state.

superfly.......

Bronco -- you know what, I'll concede that point to you. I suppose it is a little like having someone come in your room and ripping what you do. I really think gut's heart is in the right place; I think he wants to Kansas wrestling get better, but his approach can be abrasive.

This thread was created to counter an arrogance about KS wrestling being so much better than competition in the surrounding states. A lot of teams come into KS and do real well. I've encountered an attitude that will not tolerate criticism. I'm tolerant of everything but the intolerable. So yeah this is a bit in your face. I appreciate VS Vike's take on my commentary very much. He's right on. And, it's says a lot about the character of those of you who've tried to attack his credibility. He's been a perfect gentleman and made sacrifices for KS wrestling. Some of you have also denigrated Klemm on here which is mean-spirited, petty and wrong. I've had postive and critical takes about what I see going on in KS wrestling. I don't think KS wrestling "sucks". I thing some of your attitudes suck, though. I've been intimately involved in the sport here and elsewhere. I know all about wrestling from the top position as I pinned three guys at NCAAs enroute to my DI AA place and I placed in college nationals twice. I never tried to ride a single soul in college. I tried to pin them or I cut them loose to take them down. It can be easier to put a guy on his back from your feet or after five or six takedowns. There are a great many things positive happening for KS. But,let's not rest on our laurels. Don't be blind to what's painfully obvious to whomever is unbiased and watches a lot of KS wrestling. I'm holding a mirror up to some of you so you can see where your weaknesses are. By the length of these discussions, at least I know I'm getting you to read. A lot of you have an inferior strategy by trying to stall on your feet and win from the top, not all of you. A lot of you refs let the top guy simply ride for minutes at a time, not all of you. A lot of you coaches don't spend enough time in your practices from neutral and you should because more often than not that's where matches are won and lost. Though, not all matches are won and lost from the feet. I don't mind making you angry, but the real objective is to get you, wrestlers and coaches, to rethink your strategy. You cannot master all three positions, you have to make intelligent choices. Think about it this way, if you gave up all your practice time from the top to learn how to be able to go takedown's at a very high level equal to HS AA status and you knew how to escape, would that make you a higher calibur wrestler? Wouldn't it be better to have superb neutral skills and escapes, than moderate skills from all three positions? You control the pace of a match when you're the superior wrestler in neutral.