What Kansas schools, if any, should be on this list?

AMATEUR WRESTLING NEWS PREP 40 POLL (October 03 Pre-Season)

By BOB PREUSSE

#1 Blair Academy N.J.
#2 Apple Valley Minn.
#3 Northampton Pa.
#4 Easton Pa.
#5 Davison Mich.
#6 Great Bridge Va.
#7 St. Paris Graham Ohio
#8 Brandon Fla.
#9 El Reno Okla.
#10 Ponca City Okla.
#11 St. Edward Ohio
#12 Bakersfield Calif.
#13 Massillon Perry Ohio
#14 Wasatch Utah
#15 Absegami N.J.
#16 Montini Ill.
#17 Walsh Jesuit Ohio
#18 Parkersburg W.Va.
#19 Christiansburg Va.
#20 Iowa City West Iowa
#21 Billings Skyview Mont.
#22 Simley Minn.
#23 Providence Catholic Ill.
#24 Clovis Calif.
#25 Sunnyside Ariz.
#26 Luxemburg-Casco Wis.
#27 Clarkston Mich.
#28 Chicago St. Rita Ill.
#29 Cumberland Valley Pa.
#30 Valley Central N.Y.
#31 Kittatinny N.J.
#32 Kenston Ohio
#33 Glenbard North Ill.
#34 Reynolds Pa.
#35 Calvary Chapel Calif.
#36 Bradley Central Tenn.
#37 Lewis Central Iowa
#38 Ponderosa Colo.
#39 St. Mark Del.
#40 Spanish Fork Utah

maybe hoxie. its sad that we cant even break into this. i am disappointed in all of u.

Just curious,
has anyone gone to tournaments with ponka city (ok), el reno (ok) or ponderosa (co)? Was wondering how any kansas teams did when competeing against them.

Don't put too much stock in these rankings, folks. Two years ago Platte County (MO) was ranked 14th in the nation, only to get spanked by about 4000 points by Manhattan. On that day, The Hat was led by the amazing heart and determination of one Grant Parker, who made it all the way to the 2nd period against Chase Verdorn. Truly, without this courageous finish, victory would not have been possible.

Coach T Wink:

You ask "has anyone gone to tournaments with ponka city (ok), el reno (ok) or ponderosa (co)? Was wondering how any kansas teams did when competeing against them."

If memory serves me correctly, Ponderosa attended the Garden City Invitational last year and won the team championship by approximately 100 points over second place Garden City.

El Reno High School (Oklahoma City suburb) has been nationally ranked for several years and the high school coach (Archie Randall) is highly respected.

I believe Coach Randall is involved with development of the always tough Oklahoma Freestyle teams which rank at the top nationally at the summer Freestyle Tournaments.

In past years, El Reno was thought to heavily recruit high school athletes!

Coach Garcia from Hutchinson, I believe a native Oklahoman, can provide additional information regarding the Oklahoma teams. In past years Hutchinson has traveled to Oklahoma for tournaments and done well. Last year placing second at the Chuck West Tournament behind Del City.

In years past Arkansas City has traveled to the Perry, Okla. Tournament of Champions, which was won last year by Ponca City. Ark City had one wrestler win a championship (Bruce, HWT.)

prant garker,
when did they wrestle platt county? you have to realize that they had very little numbers .......barley enough tomake a varsity line up. i came from missouri so i know all about what they have done.

ok tell me if this would not be one of the top teams in the nation.

00-01
at state
14 state qualifiers
13 placers
9 finalist
8 state champions
ALL IN ONE YEAR

half of all those people that placed that year had graduated. whith that they had not even a full line up.
but they still managed to win it the next year also. last year the had 5 0r 6 people and got ....i believe 3rd 0r 4th at state. in 00-01 they were untouchable. i guarntee that manhatan did not beat them in 00-01

It was the 2001-2002 season. They won state that year with four or five champs, I believe, and they fielded a full team at Highland Park. They weren't at "The Melv" the year before that, and after receiving the beating they did, they didn't come back. (Probably because Parker made Verdorn bleed.)

Not saying they aren't a good team, though. Just saying that it's foolish to try to rank the top 40 teams in the nation. (I'm also saying Manhattan rules.)

Hoxie definately needs to be on that list somewhere. only team i can think of that has approximately 130 returning state points. That's just crazy, and when you win state by almost doubling the team that came in 2nd. Thats just insane.

OH GOD!!! don't start with the hoxie B.S. They have one kid that can possibly compete on the national level, and that one kid barely had a .500 winning percent at the freestyle national duals this summer and went two and out at fargo!!!

They are no where good enough to compete on the national level!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

how bad did verdorn beat you?

I don't know about the so called "Hoxie B.S." as Cadfan so eloquently put it. They were the best team in the State last year (any class) and will probably be the best team in the state this year as well (unless the rumors about the two kids being out are true). If any Kansas team desrves a mention they are the ones.

I personally have never wrestled Verdorn. You seem to have me confused with Grant Parker, who valiantly lasted until the 2nd period against Verdorn after making him bleed (and probably cry, too).

New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Iowa, Minnesota, Oklahoma, Michigan, Virginia, Illinois, etc.

What do all of the aforementioned states have in common? Actually a few things.

First all of the states mentioned on the Top 40 are states that have traditionally — as in over the last 40 years or so — produced more than their share of Division I and Olympic wrestlers. They all — with the exception of Montana, Florida and Delaware — have (or have had in the last 20 years) strong traditions of Division I wrestling at a national level. And most of them are states that contain many of the Top 25 Division I wrestling schools in the this country.

College wrestling breeds better high school wrestlers. I'm not sure exactly why, but it does. Maybe it's having the best in the country just a few miles away and having those day-to-day heroes to look up to. Whatever it is, we need it in Kansas.

All of this is why Baker University's efforts to bring college wrestling to Eastern Kansas is nothing but a good thing for this sport in the state. Bravo to their efforts, and as a body, we in wrestling in Kansas should start encouraging the other NAIA schools to examine this as a possibility.

i agree completely. there is a lot of solid talent in kansas. Its sad that our best have to leave to other states to have a better opportunity in college wrestling- Tyler and Chris McCormick, Zach Roberson, Bo Maynes, Stewart Bogart, Joe Johnston, Scott Coleman, Dusty Spaulding, Gabe Conahan, Shawn Bunch, Austin Devoe etc..(im sure im forgetting lots of others).

I know that not all of these guys even if they had the chance to wrestle for a D1 kansas program would, but even if half or one third of them were on a D1 kansas team, we would be a big threat in the midwest. And the fact that some of them have to go to mizzou just pisses me off. just my thoughts.

..well you can thank title 9 for that, they need to abolish that stupid law. Since inception many D-1, D-2 and Juco's had to terminate thier wrestling programs to accomidate title 9 for women. (Title 9 was designed that there would have to be the same number of college womens programs equaled to men's programs) so that women could participate in more sports i.e. waterpolo, field hockey, synchronized swimming, underwater basket weaving or whatever.

Its affirmative action at its worst! It runied college athletics, especially men's college wrestling. which most D-1 schools elminated to accomdiate for women's synchronized swimming.

I believe KU use to have a wrestling program at one time. wouldnt it be cool to have K-State and K-U incorporate or re-instated its wrestling Programs?

Ft. Hays, D-2, is the only 4 year school to offer wrestling. Others are Colby CC, Neosho CC, and Labette CC(?) other schools that terminated thier wrestling programs are Dodge City CC, Garden City CC (which terminated its program right after winning the Juco Nationals!)

On the flip side, Kansas does represent itself fairly well on the schoolastic level in national duals, and in Fargo.

All we can do is to promote our sport in the most positive way possible, encourage others to compete
to go out for the sport and to make it a postive experience for everyone involved so it can perpetuate itself, so it not to become extinct.

The thing is that you wouldn't necessarily need a D-I program in the state (and K-State was the last D-I school in the state to have wrestling, dropping it in 1975). I think the odds are long indeed of D-I college wrestling ever returning to Kansas — I just don't see it.

Iowa has 18 four-year schools (3 D-I, 12 D-III and three NAIA) that have wrestling, plus two JUCOs. Oklahoma has many as well. So long as we increase the opportunities for Kansas high school wrestlers to wrestle at the NCAA and NAIA levels, its a good thing. Fort Hays and the jucos are to be applauded for their efforts, but more schools are needed.

Call your college and encourage the start of a program!

I too believe that the lack of a NCAA DI school hurts our perception as a talented wrestling state. Our consistency at the NHSCA senior nationals has brought some accolades our way, but I don't feel we get the respect we deserve.

It is true we don't have many people go on to earn DI AA honors, but we also don't have the number of DI recruits go on to compete that other states do. Kansas' best recruits can go anywhere, but there are a lot of talented individuals who give up the sport to attend K-State or KU instead of competing at the most elite of levels.

Unfortunately budgetary constraints and Title IX have not helped the likelihood of K-State or KU or WSU.... starting the sport. It is nice to see KSU and KU fielding teams for the club circuit - at least its a start.

Also in this thread Cardfan indicated that Hoxie did not deserve to be mentioned in the pre-season ranking using the basis that they didn't have anyone compete well on the freestyle and/or greco tours.

I guess I am assuming that the poll is based on folkstyle not freestyle/greco, so I disagree with his logic in excluding them.

While certainly adequate on their feet, Hoxie's overwhelming strength has never been from the neutral position. But they, as a group, are quite good on the mat. And that alone can create a pretty big difference in success between the various disciplines. Couple that with the lack of a dedicated freestyle club in NW KS and it is little wonder that Hoxie does not field a lot of AA's in the summer months - not an excuse, just an observation.

Do they deserve to be on the list? Who knows? Last year Hoxie received ranking as one of the top 10 teams in the OK, MO, KS, TX region and some of the best teams in the nation come from those states. But it is purely speculation as to whether last year's team should have cracked into the nation's top 40. Regardless, they were pretty dog-gone tough.

This year's version has a lot of firepower too and, barring injury, they should have another great season. Their senior class is loaded with talent - especially when considering Charlie Ochs missed most of his sophomore season and was not able to wrestle last year. And Jeremiah Moss has not wrestled since his freshman year.

With that said, it will be interesting to see whether Hoxie is able to match the depth and consistency all the way through the line-up that they did a year ago. 13 qualifiers, 11 medals and 218.5 team points will be tough to top - especially with the amount of returning talent that 3-2-1A is bringing back this year.

One thing is for certain, you can bet Baker and Porsch will have them ready to go once they finish up the fine football season they have going.

Just felt compelled to offer my biased opinion here. Thanks.

And hey.....we are less than a month away from best sport in Kansas. Good luck to all.

Les,
I agree totally with you that Charlie is a great wrestler and he has faced some very adverse situations in the last two seasons, but do you really feel that he could have made varsity last year. I'm sure every coach in the state would love to have Coach Baker's problem of not having an opening for a state placer but in your unbiased opinion do you think he would have made varsity?

To Les, I do think that Hoxie is a good team, just not a top team in the nation. Here is how they rank the individual wrestlers and teams.

FREESTYLE DOES HAVE A HUGE IMPACT!

Several factors were considered in determining these rankings. They include: (1) accomplishments at the state high school championships (folkstyle) (2) National Junior Freestyle and Greco-Roman success (3) Cadet National Freestyle and Greco-Roman success (4) performances at prestigious high school tournaments (5) information from coaches and parents (6) state from which nominees hail. An update will be forthcoming.

Tim....my -

Good question. Who knows how things would have turned out. But, if memory serves me correctly (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this), Ochs won the open tryouts last season at 119 to start the season.

Baker had originally intended to go 112 until Ochs was injured and they then shuffled the line-up. Of course Tyler went on to have a great year and who knows how a tryout between those two would have turned out later in the year. And Michael Schamberger stepped in and delivered a great season too.

My point was intended to be that it is a pretty solid class and he was definately a part of it.

People forget that Charlie was a tough call in the semis away from the championship finals as a freshman.

Then as a sophomore he limped through the season injured and drew eventual champ Kyle Patton in the first round. Despite being injured and winded (because of a lack of mat time casued by the injury) Charlie gave Kyle all he wanted in the match. It was 2-0 late and ended 4-0 after he got caught when he tried a desparation move to close the match. Charlie fought all the way out the back to place 4th.

And Cardfan, I'll take your word for it that freestyle/greco results are a sound tool in determining folkstyle rankings. But I still contend you can be a pretty tough folkstyle team without exceling at the alternative disciplines.