If hotels are really requiring a mandatory stay then the second round on Friday should be the backdoor round to let parents have the option of canceling their reservations and going home. It is ridiculous for hotels to require this. If they do they better have a 6pm cancelation on day of arrival! I never encounter this anywhere else with the exception of tourist attractions (ski resorts, Disney, etc.) It is looking more and more like this event is for the money not for the kids. State used to be in Wichita, Hays, and Salina. Why is it always in Topeka now? Are the requirements too strict to permit these other cities to compete for the event?

How long will it be before someone announces the schedule of rounds to be wrestled?

Will,

I also find the 2-night requirement unreasonable, but Topeka is definitely in a seller's market during the tournament weekend. The hotel that my club stays with won't even accept credit cards - we have to pay cash up front for both nights. This isn't something specific to my club; rather, it is their standard policy for this weekend. From what I�ve heard from other clubs, I don�t think our hotel is particularly unique in its requirements for this weekend.

This isn't just a matter of unreasonable hoteliers, though. In large part, the hotels are responding to past problems when some clubs would reserve far more rooms than they would actually need, then cancel the excess at the last minute, leaving the hotels with large vacancies while several clubs were forced to book rooms in Lawrence, etc. because they couldn't get a reservation in Topeka.

The state tournament location is bid every three years, and is voted upon by the Kids Executive Council and the state body. Salina lost the tournament primarily because of the hotel situation there. I am concerned that Topeka may be headed down the same road. If cost were the principal consideration, though, we would have never left Salina. When the state body votes on a site, I think the principal concern is finding the best facility to give the kids a great finale. At the time of the last bidding (and I know for a fact that there were numerous bids solicited from across the state, including Wichita, Hays and Salina), the vote for Topeka was overwhelming.

I�m not saying that everything is perfect, far from it. And we are always looking for ways to improve on the state tournament, as well as the entire smorgasbord of wrestling opportunities in Kansas. Anyone who has been involved in Kids wrestling for more than a few years knows that there have been significant changes over time. But I do believe that it is important to understand why things are organized the way they are. Only by understanding what has come before, and the reasoning for current policies, can we make intelligent choices for the future.

There are good ideas which are generated from this forum, but don�t just vent now and next week, then forget about it until next year at this time. I was sitting in both the Executive Council meeting and the state body meeting where Greg Grater brought up the concerns raised last year. He specifically asked if the state tournament schedule should be changed at both meetings. There was no major sentiment for such a change at those meetings. If you want to see changes, go ahead and use this forum to compare and discuss ideas, but be sure to take the most important step of attending the state body meeting to make your presentation where it will really make a difference.

I have asked the state tournament directors to post a response regarding how the rounds will be wrestled at this year's tournament. Due to a death in the family (the funeral is today), it will probably be this evening before they will be able to respond.

I for one, like the way the tournament is ran. It closely resenmbles most tournaments of this nature Where the champion side of the bracket is wrestle out were there is just one match for the champions on the last day. Look at the High Schools and NCAAs. I think the tournament directors have done a great job. I do feel sorry for the wrestlers on the loser side but if you put as much time into wrestling as most the inconvience is minumal. Espect to be there all weekend the sport is worth it. Coach Knox

Coach Knox, I am not positive about this but as I recall from trying to keep up with Shawn Bunch's, Zach Roberson's, and Cael Sanderson's progress this weekend, I do not believe that the NCAA winners wrestled their third match before the first round losers wrestled their second match (which is what happened at our Kids State Tournament last year). Perhaps you or someone else knows if the NCAA and/ or high school tournament winners really wrestle 3 matches before the first round losers wrestle their second match. Last year when I posted on this topic right after the State tournament, I believe someone posted and said that our Kansas High School tournament did not have the winners wrestle three matches before the first round losers wrestled their second. I would be interested in knowing the answer if anyone knows for sure.

I think it would be great for the winners to wrestle their first three matches the first day, if it can all be fit in. I just do not think it is fair for the winners to wrestle their third match before the first round losers wrestle their second.

Coach Knox,

I did indeed look at the High School format and they too are ran with 2 front side matches then they go to the back side for the third round match. I dont have a problem with wrestling the 3rd front side match on day 1 if time allows it, but to make all losers of their first match wrestle 5 times(to place) on day 2 is a little much. jeff

Jeff: Thank you for your answer on the high school tournament. Now hopefully someone can confirm if that was true of the NCAA's also.

I completely agree that it would not be fair for the first round losers to have to wrestle four to five matches the second day compared to the finalists only wrestling one match. In fairness, I do not feel that it is likely that most of the first round losers will wrestle that many matches the second day. There is a 50% chance they are going to lose their first match on the second day too. This happened to my son last year.

The real issue in my mind is that it is fundamentally unfair for the first round losers to have to wait for the first round winners to wrestle two more matches before they wrestle their second match. Even if they manage to get that first round match in the first day, you probably could be talking about a 8-10 hour interval. I think anything over a 4 to 5 hour wait for that second match is excessive.

There is a chance that this year my son may be wrestling in the third round semi-final since he won the District. So he could be a beneficiary this year of last year's format. But I don't think it would be fair and I would rather him wait to 8 or 9 that evening or the next morning to wrestle that semi-final match than to have any wrestlers and their families wait for him to wrestle three matches before they wrestle their second.

Jeff,
If you lose your 1st match then you only have to win 3 matches to medal. Personally, I like the format of having 3 front side, and 1 back side match on the first day. I think that the wrestlers should be rewarded for good wrestling on day 1 and not have to wrestle until the finals on day 2.

It may not be ideal, but it can be done. My son lost his first match and wrestled five more matches to earn 3rd place.

Big time wrestling, Technically you are correct about the three wins, but I believe they still wrestle five matches after their first round loss.
I kept my copy of my son's bracket last year and unless I'm reading it incorrectly (which if you knew me, you would know that is possible) he would have had to win 4 matches to reach the 3rd place match. Now the loser of that fourth match on that bracket would medal either 5th or 6th but he or she would still being wrestling 5 matches after the 1st round loss. No one is objecting to the fact that they have to wrestle the 5 matches. They are only to objecting as to when they are having to wrestle them.

I don't think anyone who objects to the new format is against the idea of having 3 front side matches and 1 back side match on the first day. The problem is that the back side match for many is not being wrestled on the first day. Many of the wrestlers wrestled their first backside on the second day. That happened to my son and another older boy on our club last year. The reason is because they are wrestling the 3rd frontside match before the backside match. If you read Jeff's post above again, you will see that they do not do it this way in the high school tournament. They do 2 frontside (not three), and then a backside. I'm pretty sure that is how the NCAA's also schedule their sequence of matches.

Myboyswrestle, First of all congratulations to your son on his accomplishment. I believe that is one of the most difficult things to do. That was an awesome accomplishment. I know you are very proud of him.

I was just curious did he do that last year and if it was last year was he one of the fortunate ones who got to wrestle his second match on the first day or did he have to wait until the second day to wrestle his second match like my son and his teammate did?

husherfan is realizing what i am saying. I dont care that we wrestle 3 front side matches on the first day, if time allows. That would make day 2 shorter for those with travel plans. It is the sequencing that is wrong here. After the 2 first round matches there should be at least one round of back side matches completed to eliminate 1/4 of the competitors and make day 2 a little less taxing on an 8 (or 6) year olds body. I would like any of you to go to the high school results page and pull up any weight. I did this and found they wrestle 2 front side, followed by 2 backside, 1 frontside(semis), 2 back, and then the Finals(5-6, 3-4, 1-2). That is what the sequencing was that I have been seeing everywhere in a 16 man bracket. Another big one that comes to mind this way was the Park City Classic. I am going to guess that Salina Tournament of Champions is also done this way too, but I didnt keep our bracket to check. Jeff Broadbent - Mill Valley Wrestling Club