How can both the North & South Sub. Districts in District 4 place more than 4 wrestlers?

I believe these Subs wrestle out to 6th place in the event that one of the top four wrestlers is unable to wrestle at Districts.
This allows them to take the fifth place wrestler and move him on to districts.

I believe this to be a good thing!

this is correct, they wrestle out to 5th & 6th so that if one of the top 4 can't go, for what ever reason,then they move 5th up then 6th if needed,and every year some 5th or 6th placer gets to go because someone either gets injured or just decides they don't want to move on. i thought all subs. did this ??

Thanks for the information and yes I agree this is a good practice!

We were told in District 3 that if the East bracket wasn't full that they would be filled with qualifiers from the West district to make a full 8 if possible and visa versa. So then a 5th place wrestler in the West would fill in the 4th spot in the East if it was open.

Is that really fair. If the 4th place finisher barely beat the 5th place wrestler at subs, which is supposed to be a qualifying tournament, and the next week at districts he loses to the same wrestler to go to state it blows the fact that the #4 finisher did what he was supposed to do at subs and he gets punished at districts and does not qualify for state. Only the top 4 should go and the 5th or 6th should be used only when one or more of the top 4 could not go.

Don't you think districts should have a full eight man bracket? I think that makes it more competitive and it should be at this level. Does it really matter if they come from the north, south east or west.

Yes, allowing 5th & 6th place wrestlers to advance (if a vacancy exists in the district) is a very good practice. After all, this is a DISTRICT Championship. And, don't we want the best wrestlers to represent our District?

If a 5th or 6th Place wrestler were to "bump-out" a wrestler who did "qualify" the previous week, then I would say they (5th or 6th) worked harder and became the better wrestler. That is the wrestler I want representing my District.

Furthermore, there are (up to) 8 wrestlers in the bracket at Districts. If anyone out there is worried about the 5th or 6th place wrestler from Subs, instead of the 1st & 2nd place wrestlers (which equals 4 wrestlers), you might re-think your logic.

Each District is given the "latitude" to allow or not allow this practice of advancing 5th & 6th place. In District 1, it appears that the brackets were seeded with the top wrestlers from each Sub, and the rest (byes, 5th, 6th) were "drawn-in".

Finally, the rules say "There will be four (4) qualifiers from each District to State." I interpret this to mean only 4 wrestlers advance to state. So, don't fret - your 4th place wrestler can't be bumped from State by anyone but a "true qualifier".

How do they handle this it the state level? Say you have only four wrestlers in district 1, 7 in district 2, none in district 3, and 1 in district 4. By the way the seeding is this year, you would have 4 wrestlers from district 1 seeded against 4 of the 7 wrestlers from district 2, then a lone wrestler on the other side of the bracket from district four with bye's all the way to the championship match. It seems like this 5th and 6th place rule should be used for state too, that way some of these weight classes will get a full or close to full bracket for a first time.

This is NOT fair to kids like my son, who took 5th at District 2 North subs in his bracket, and the south sub only had 3 wrestlers. But, since it is District 2 and not District 3, he is not allowed to wrestle this week at Winfield. If one district is going to allow this practice of allowing 5th place wrestlers to fill an eight man bracket, than all of them should.
(By the way, even though he was eliminated this past weekend, he still attended practices all this week to help his teammates. So I think he might still be pretty good this week if he was allowed to wrestle.)

From the USAW-KS Kids Constitution:

Section III, Part B, Item 6

"6. The District State Director and his/her two Assistant State Directors will determine the number of qualifiers from Sub-District to District. Each District will have this responsibility."

As I stated in another thread, this is the rule that allows the practice of filling out the district brackets. Basically the power of how each district's 4 state qualifiers are picked is in your districts hands. If you want change then start by expressing that wish to your team representative. This is a “local” issue.

No body is doing anything wrong. There are various points of view on how to determine the four state qualifiers from a district. I am supportive of the idea of giving the kids another week to wrestle in a qualifying event.

As previously stated, our by laws only allow 4 representatives from each district to advance to the state tournament. This is also covered in Section III-Part B. I have mixed views on this step. Therefore, I would not advocate any change to the by laws without a full hearing on the issues…both pro and con.

If there was enough kids to wrestle out for 5th and 6th the sub-districts did. For example in district 4 if there was 4 kids from the south and 4 kids from the north and one wrestler becamee sick, or a funeral, or a broken arm, etc... then they pull in a wrestler to fill the slot. But, if there are 4 kids from the north and 2 from the south which adds up to 6. And there happened to be a 5th and 6th place wrestler in the north, they don't pull those two kids in to make a full bracket. The 5th and 6th place kids are only pulled in to replace a wrestler who has decided not to go on or had some unforseen circumstance beyond his/her control to move on to the next level of qualifying. Just like this weekend they will wrestle out for 5th and 6th when applicable. There is nothing unfair about this. If a wrestler finishes out the day by winning that important 5th place match, he/she might get lucky and receive that phone call to move on.

In district 1 the example you gave of only 2 from the south and 4 from the north they would take 5th and 6th from the north

wrestler_13_13


the bracket should look like this(example)


D1(1st)
D2(4th)
D3(2nd)
D4(3rd)
D3(3rd)
D4(2nd)
D1(4th)
D2(1st)

D3(1st)
D4(4th)
D1(2nd)
D2(3rd)
D1(3rd)
D2(2nd)
D3(4th)
D4(1st)

The district 4 wrestler can't bye in all the way, because he /she would have a second round match against a D1 or D2 wrestler and in the semi's they would wrestle another D1 or D2 wrestler. Unless they all scratch on that side of the bracket.

I am going to take a wild guess and say your child probably benefitted from this practice. "Worked harder", they should not even be there if they did not finish in the top 4 and that is the whole point. We don't take extra's to the state tourny if the bracket is not full, so districts should follow the same guidelines.

Why shouldn't we take the 5th or 6th place placers at districts on to state to help "fill out" a bracket? I'm sure we can all site specific instances where a district may of had 6 of the top 10 wrestlers in the state. Why should these wrestlers not be allowed advancement based on the fact of where they live? It sounds to me like some people who have wrestlers in the extremely heavy or light weights, or may participate in a district that may recieve a 1st round bye at state, would like to have an easy pass. The idea of an open state tournament sounds like a better idea every time I read one of these post. Before you reply to this post ask yourself why would you deny any child the opportunity to experience the state tournament?

Has anyone ever evaluated the total population of each sub-district to determine if the areas are divided equally? It would seem to me that there are alot more people represented in areas like Ditrict 1 North and District 2 North than there are in areas like District 4 North and 4 South. Therefore, everything else being equal, it would seem to be a disadvantage for a kid who lives in D1N or D2N since there are probably alot more wrestlers to beat to make it to Districts and then to state.
No flames please, just wondering how they divide up the state into districts and sub-districts.

Two years ago we tried to even all the districts out but District I voted not to change?

Since they didn't want to change we decided to leave it as it was.

These were the numbers two years ago, I don't know what they are now?

District I - 2,774

District II - 1,727

District III - 1,517

District IV - 1,605

I feel the districts should be realigned every five years whether anyone likes it or not. This way it would make it fair across the entire State.

Wow!! Quite a disparity. Wonder why District 1 didn't want to realign?
I would still like to see the total population of wrestling-age kids in each district and sub-district. It would be interesting to see if there are alot of kids, percentage-wise, that do not wrestle from D1 and D2 due to the odds of being competitive at the state level, etc. Maybe we need to create permanent levels, such as A, B, C, or Division 1, 2, 3 for wrestlers so they are not always at the bottom of the pile. We could even have the different levels compete at state within their own brackets. This might make the frustrations of the fifth and sixth place kids (and lower) go away.