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Rams Win Tourney / Wrestling Positions to Avoid Pic #80686 02/14/06 09:37 PM
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SlammerWrestling6 Offline OP
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Pleasant Ridge placed four Rams in first place of the Delaware Valley Tournament Saturday at Pleasant Ridge High School. Congrats to the Rams.

Below is the Leavenworth Times Article.

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An Awkward Position — Times photo/Doug Magill — Pleasant Ridge 171-pounder Joe Phillips locks Horton’s William Miller’s head between his legs on his way to a 19-2 win. Phillips later defeated teammate Clinton Culbertson for the right to represent the Rams in the regional tournament on Friday.

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Sports

Ridge wrestlers take DVL crown
By DOUG MAGILL, Times Assistant Sports Editor



Pleasant Ridge placed four Rams in first place of the Delaware Valley Tournament Saturday at Pleasant Ridge High School. The Rams needed just 94 points to claim the title.

Taking titles for Pleasant Ridge were Jason Smock at 103-pounds, Jeremy Keen at 112, Elliot Matthews at 130 and Joe Phillips at 171.

With just Smock and Adam Engelken of Oskaloosa entered at 103-pounds, Smock swept Engelken in a best two-out-of-three series. They were each comeback victories for Smock. Smock opened out the day defeating Engelken 9-3 after starting out trailing 3-0. He then followed up by pinning Engkelken in the third period after trailing 7-3.

“In his second match,” head coach Darren Weber said. “He looked much better than in his first.”

In the opener, Smock was taken down in the first period and then surrendered a penalty point in the second. However, things were different in the third. Smock scored three separate three-point near falls on his way to the win. In the third period of the second match, Smock trailed 7-3 before scoring on a take down which put Engelken straight on his back. Smock scored the pin just a few seconds later.

Keen was just wanting some mat time before heading to the regional tournament on Friday, Weber said. The 112-pounder cruised to a 3-0 finish on his way to a DVL crown. He opened his day defeating Josh Cady of Oskaloosa 18-2. He then pinned Trevor Saunders of Doniphan West in the third period. Then he finished it off by pinning Riley Richling of Horton also in the third period.

“He coasted through the day,” Weber said. “He head been in some tournaments with those guys in which he had placed ahead of them. He wanted to get some mat time too, so it was a nice thing for him to be able to do that getting ready for regionals. He wanted some time on the mat and he wanted to score points. So he waited for the third period and then he went for the fall.”

Mitchel Horan placed second for the Rams at 119. Horan pinned Raven Davies of Horton in the second period, before being pinned by Sean Price of Doniphan West in the final.

After leaving the 125-pound weight class open, Elliot Matthews picked up first place in the 130 division. Weber said he didn’t waste much time either.

Mathews pinned Hortons Nolan Scot in the first period and then pinned Nicholas Dickerson in the first period also. Matthews spent an entire two minutes, 29 seconds on the wrestling mat on Saturday.

“He didn’t mess around,” Weber said. “He took them down quick. That’s pretty impressive.”

None of the four teams entered a competitor into the 135-pound class. The Rams also left 140 open also. John Day went 0-3 at 145. The Rams were also open at 152,160, 215 and 275.

As Weber saw it, at 171, he only had one real way to determine who was going to represent Ridge at the regional tournament. Joe Phillips, the squads varsity starter was back for his first meet after sustaining a knee injury at the Rossville Tournament in January. Clinton Culbertson, who has been wrestling in his stead, has been strong ever since. So Weber decided to have both wrestlers enter at 171.

That made it a rough day for William Miller of Horton.

Phillips defeated Miller 19-2 and then Culbertson made quick work of Miller, pinning him in the first round. Phillips defeated Culbertson 10-0.

“I felt that was something we had to do,” Weber said. “It gives the kids a better opportunity. To wrestle on a mat in front of a crowd with someone else refing besides me, I just felt like that was the fairest thing to do.”

Ethan Brown lost a best two-of-three series to Jake Rowland of Oskaloosa. The Rams to go to Rossville for their regional which starts Friday.

“We’ll do a lot of drilling this week,” Weber said. “We want to maintain our conditioning and we’ll review some things techniquewise.”

Weber said that he knows he has some strong competitors on his squad, however he knows that regional tournaments bring strong competition also.

“We’re going to have some spots where we’re going to be strong,” Weber said. “but our regionals will be no cakewalk. Even our guys who are seeded will have to wrestle at their best. With 16 man brackets, you have to wrestle a lot of matches.”

The 3A Regional Tournment for is held in Rossville Friday and Saturday.

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Good Luck Rams at Regionals

Mike Flynn

Re: Rams Win Tourney / Wrestling Positions to Avoid Pic #80687 02/15/06 12:36 AM
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Shelstin Offline
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That's just wrong to even put that in the paper. Poor kid. I'm sure no one on his team gave him a hard time over it. How many junior high kids decided to be basketball players this week?


Rick Cue
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Re: Rams Win Tourney / Wrestling Positions to Avoid Pic #80688 02/15/06 12:41 AM
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Lol hahahaha Its even more wrong to put it on the net but its darn sure funny.

Re: Rams Win Tourney / Wrestling Positions to Avoid Pic #80689 02/15/06 12:43 AM
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Looks like a pumped up crowd, too...


Rick Cue
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Re: Rams Win Tourney / Wrestling Positions to Avoid Pic #80690 02/15/06 12:48 AM
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Nigel Isom Offline
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You know ...

That ALMOST looks like an illegal figure 4 to the head, the foot is almost over the calf, naughty naughty!


William Nigel Isom
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Re: Rams Win Tourney / Wrestling Positions to Avoid Pic #80691 02/15/06 02:29 AM
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Chase Offline
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Talk about brown nosing....

or Chin nuts...


Hey Butt-Head what did people do before they invented TV?
Don't be stupid Beavis there's always been TV, there's just more channels now.
Oh yeah, heh heh hehe... progress is cool. Heh hehe heh
Re: Rams Win Tourney / Wrestling Positions to Avoid Pic #80692 02/15/06 04:57 PM
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Refs looking to take away pts are definitely from KS. Nigel, that's not an illegal hold but the KS ref in you wants to take it away. More times than not a spark of offense, a spark so desparetly needed to keep this sport from being so dull, gets squished out by a showy ref who calls the toes just out of bounds. The proud ref sweeps both arms out of bounds and then both hands point up---neutral position, again. I see it all the time. Calling two for a takedown with the toes just in bounds must not be as fun for refs. Frankly, I've been a ref and a lot of time you don't have a vantage point to see if supporting points are in bounds or not. Things happen quickly..I suggest that to KS refs, if there's a doubt, and to be honest there often is, then award the offensive guy the points. It is appalling how often the guy trying to get out of bounds gets rewarded.

Re: Rams Win Tourney / Wrestling Positions to Avoid Pic #80693 02/15/06 05:11 PM
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Kindof like Erisman's match against Oak Park.

Re: Rams Win Tourney / Wrestling Positions to Avoid Pic #80694 02/15/06 05:19 PM
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I'm sorry, but I had to...


Seth Farley
Re: Rams Win Tourney / Wrestling Positions to Avoid Pic #80695 02/15/06 05:59 PM
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Nigel Isom Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by gutwrench1:
Refs looking to take away pts are definitely from KS. Nigel, that's not an illegal hold but the KS ref in you wants to take it away.
Quote:
Originally posted by Nigel Isom:
You know ...

That ALMOST looks like an illegal figure 4 to the head, the foot is almost over the calf
SHUT UP!!!!!! You must be the most annoying, self serving person to ever visit this website.
Its pretty obviously that I was making a joke, but I don't thik you would ever be able to tell that that based upon your pessimistic attitude about everything involving Kansas wrestling.

NOTE: You are very much inccorect about your previous statement. That hold COULD be called illegal as the rule reads "Behind the knee" which his foot is over his calf. A close judgement call and could go either way, but you wouldn't know that because you are not an official, and im fairly sure noone would want you to be theirs, since you seem to think its okay to bend the rules.


William Nigel Isom
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Re: Rams Win Tourney / Wrestling Positions to Avoid Pic #80696 02/15/06 06:04 PM
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Nigel, "Shut-up" is a pretty negative statement. I have officiated both college and high school. folkstyle and freetstyle. I like that you would call this hold illegal. It says it all really.

Re: Rams Win Tourney / Wrestling Positions to Avoid Pic #80697 02/15/06 06:16 PM
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I didn't say that I WOULD, I said that it COULD be called illegal.

I know what you are thinking and that is the exact attitude that messes it up for everyone else. Its the "Oh well the kid is going to get pinned anyway" attitude. So who really cares if its done doing an illegal move. I suppose you'd say the same thing if a kid had a head lock and he went above the elbow with the encircled arm for just a few seconds. Yeah it went illegal but the kid is going to get pinned anyway so I'll pretend like I didn't see it.

I think I understand all too well how you see things, the rules only apply except when excitement and "spark" dictate that a match continue despite something illegal being done. You'll have to excuse the other officials and I of Kansas for taking a literal interpretation of the rules (especailly the ones that have the side note on them that say "Don't call this if its going to take the spark out of the match"

Your repsonses are laughable gutty, i hope for the sake of anyone wrestling in our great state that they don't ever step on a mat that you choose to officiate, cause god knows what might happen to them.


William Nigel Isom
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Riley KS
Re: Rams Win Tourney / Wrestling Positions to Avoid Pic #80698 02/15/06 08:44 PM
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No Nigel, you do not know what I'm thinking. Let me be more clear. I think you are exactly what's wrong with KS wrestling. I think you're a thin skinned ref with rabbit ears who can't take a little constructive criticism. You promote the status quo. You're afraid of change and you're part of the old boy network of coaches and refs. My position once more is that as a ref if you don't know, and often you do not, reward the guy going for it. This is a difficult concept. I know.

Re: Rams Win Tourney / Wrestling Positions to Avoid Pic #80699 02/15/06 08:54 PM
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And I don't think you'll ever be happy with any call unless you are the one making it, and everyone else agrees with you, which by the way, they won't!

As for rabbit ears and thin skin, I think you should probably see me officiate before you make a judgement about that. I follow the rules by the book with no exceptions, if the feet are out then they are out, if a move is illegal then I call it. Im sorry that current officiating in our state offends you, but if you don't like it you can go elsewhere. Your "constructive criticism" is not such, its destructive. It serves no purpose other than to make it sound like you are whining. Im not afraid of change, as soon as they change a rule in the rule book I'll be more than happy to follow that.


William Nigel Isom
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Re: Rams Win Tourney / Wrestling Positions to Avoid Pic #80700 02/15/06 09:13 PM
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gutwrench1 Offline
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Nigel, what we're talking about here sparky is when you have to make a "judgement" call. I'm sure everthing is black and white in Manhattan but what guides you when it could go either way? You saw it for about a 1/4 sec or not at all. You're not 100% sure. I've been a ref, pal. It happens. So what KS moral compass guides you then? Do you take the points away since you're unsure? Do you stop the move and award a penalty point to the kid getting pinned on this thread?The rule book doesn't tell you what to do under those circumstances when you do not know for certain. I see refs anxious to take points away from kids under those circumstances and I think that's wrong.

Re: Rams Win Tourney / Wrestling Positions to Avoid Pic #80701 02/15/06 09:29 PM
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Well we are both looking at the same picture here, there is also a picture in the rule book the shows a legal figure 4 to the head, and it shows the foot directly behind the knee. I see the picture above and I see his foot is in the middle of his calf, and I think "Wow his foot isn't behing the knee, in fact if it slips any further down he would be completly off the calf muscle."

Also look where his foot is in relation to his knee pad, its not even touching the bottom of his knee pad. Im not sure how they are making knee pads these days, but last I knew they extended at least 3 inches below the actual bottom of the kneee cap itself. What im trying to say here, is no I don't want to "take points away from a wrestler" I will penalize if something appears illegal to me. Based on the picture I see above, It could most definatly be called illegal.

As far a judgement calls are concerned, If I see a situation and there is no compeling evidence in my mind that the situation has changed from the status quo then no im not going to award points based on effort. So if two wrestlers are going out of bounds and I don't believe that the top wrestler has lost control even though the bottom wrestler was fighting for his life to go out, then im not awarding points. That the nature of a judgement call. As Official1 and 2 have pointed out, these calls are more often "felt" rather than "seen".


William Nigel Isom
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Riley KS
Re: Rams Win Tourney / Wrestling Positions to Avoid Pic #80702 02/15/06 09:41 PM
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gutwrench1 Offline
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I accept your position, especially your last sentence. I would argue that it is tougher to find compelling evidence for change of control than it is not to find compelling evidence. In fact it's easy not to find compelling evidence. So most often these no calls penalize the guy who initiated the move and scored. It may have been in bounds but without the ref finding compelling evidence, the wrestler loses. That's what I am arguing against. And, truthfully it's not just a KS problem.

Re: Rams Win Tourney / Wrestling Positions to Avoid Pic #80703 02/15/06 11:34 PM
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Marbla Offline
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So...what do you think of that sporting event last night?


Seth Farley
Re: Rams Win Tourney / Wrestling Positions to Avoid Pic #80704 02/16/06 03:16 AM
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Wow we start off with a humorous picture of a kid with his nose in bad position, and it turns into nasty bickering. Cant we just get along and smell the ... on second thought.

Re: Rams Win Tourney / Wrestling Positions to Avoid Pic #80705 02/17/06 02:23 AM
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quiz Offline
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gutwrench, motivator of the year. You get my vote. Ever thought about getting paid to do it? some people hate what they cant be. lol. Are you gonna have a summer camp? I hope. not everybody in Kansas is as intellecually stimulating as your self.Paul Revere rides again.


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