There are many suggestions that can be made and believe it appropriate that we make those suggestions. I am a firm believer that the consumer has the right to be heard. I know many parents were complaining about not seeing their kids wrestle, I believe an appropriate complaint when the parent pays the bills.

Here are a few of my own.

Go to a bracket system with bout numbers. The computer programs, the bull pin format seems to always cause problems and for a large tournament is not fan, wrestler, or coach friendly.

Give the High School kids their own format to shine. I can't imagine a college coach in the country that would enjoy going to this tournament the way it was this weekend.

As a coach, it was virtually impossible to keep up with your kids. For a large club like ours it was even more difficult.

This one may be controversial, but give coaches passes to the representative clubs as opposed to selling them to whomever wants to buy them. I know many won't like this suggestion, but the floor space was horrible, the parents, family, friends and others on the floor made the situation rather difficult at times.

More bathrooms, even if getting temporary port a johns. I have never had to wait for a men’s bathroom like this before.

A little promotion here, but I would like to also see USA Wrestling represented at this event. Not that it has to be a USA event, but USA Wrestling represents and provide a service to many wrestlers. I know there are other organizations, and am okay with AAU and others where appropriate, but it is time we come together to support our teams. I know several Olympic and World Team former members were there. The truth is for the ultimate development of wrestling, USA Wrestling is the top dog, they need our support.


I know there will be others, but also thought a couple of good things.

The willingness to use the profits to help college wrestling is something. It is great to put your profits where your mouth is. On this note, I know that Kansas, even last year while in Iowa provided a huge contingency, just a note here, we are trying to get a D1 program started in our state and would appreciate all of the help we can get.

Another great thing, the competition was great. I know a tournament is as committed to this as anyone, they are also largely responsible for this. I don't think it will be long, before this will be one of the premiere events in the country. I really believe it is possible if the HS wrestlers are given their own times.

Another great thing, I wasn't expecting it but the food, drinks and refreshments for the coaches were really appreciated. I wasn't expecting this, but what little time we did have, it was nice to have this as an option from having to purchase food and/or drinks.

While I like the way the KCI is sat up for the Duals I am not sure I like the way it was for Brute, that aside, the staff here are first class and my experience was that they, and the volunteers were more than friendly and accommodating. Being from Wichita I only wish those at the Kansas Coliseum here could learn from you.

In closing, I do believe that at least Kansans, while appreciating the positive things about the tournament, will want to see improvements. I know many still have a sour taste regarding the Kids Folkstyle Nationals after that first year in Iowa after moving from Kansas. Just now have the kinks started to get worked out and Kansans that moved away from that tournament are starting to go back. I believe that this could happen with Brute if not careful. That would be a shame, because it has the potential to be a great show case and especially a great service for our High School wrestlers more than any other group. I for one believe they need all of the attention they can get, a year end event like this can provide it.

As for giving out coaches passes vs. purchasing them, Go ahead and let them purchase them if they are paying that much for thier kid! Also with such a big venue it is harder to keep up with kids! The problem is that tons of people were on the floor with no coaches pass and that was never enforced! I bet at least half or more of the traffic were people without the pass! Less people on the floor during the first Fri session and they did bull pin! I would have liked the bull bin if they would have designated a certain matt to a certain grade etc.

Mike,

From a womans perspective the bathroom situation was very interesting...I didn't wait in line once this whole weekend but always saw a line for the men! Now you guys know how we feel!

I am e-mailing my suggestions ( I posted on another topic ) to Brute - I agree that the potential is there for this to be big! It just needs to work out the kinks.

The grade school thing...I'm biased because I went ahead and entered my grade schooler since we would already be there for the high schooler. Either way, I really don't care. However if college coaches aren't coming because of the kids this move should be reconsidered. Most of us send our high school kids to these tournament for exposure for college scouts. Maybe consider dividing the sessions into grade school only...high school only. All high schoolers Friday night instead of mixing it up? Get the grade schoolers done in the morning, high schoolers in the afternoon? Just some thoughts.

On the bathroom

On the thing with the kids, I like the idea of the kids, but believe there is a way to do it so that we can have seperate sessions, or even on different days. Nows I think your suggestion mentioned above is great. Seems to me like it would work.

Now as to getting some boys up and having a blessed day in Kansas City on Easter.

My how our opinion has changed since I made my "suggestions" regarding a certain club's tournament over on the kids board a couple of years ago.


So you want USAW to set up a booth or banners or what, at a non-USAW sanction event? Sorry, it simply isn't going to happen at this event or any others and rightfully so.



I have seen the mention of "profits" from this tournament being used for college wrestling in a couple of different posts, can anyone point me to where a statement of how much past profits were and where they were donated? If this is the first year for such, then lets wait and see if in fact there were any profits and if so, how much if any of those profits were in fact donated. Please don't take their statement at face value. Many fraudulent charities operate in exactly the same manner.


Have you ever personally had problems with the Coliseum staff or just repeating rumors posted on this board? In all my years at the Coliseum I have not only not had any problems with the staff,I have not witnessed anyone else having problems and I have not ever spoken to anyone who had problems.

The reason there were so many people without coaches passes on the mats was that those with passes that were not coaching were blocking the view of those sitting in the stands. The middle mats were the worst. When I did complain to the head table about people standing around the mats and blocking other's views, I was told if I wanted to see my son's match to go ahead and go on the mat because there was nothing they could do.

Mike

If you think the wrestlers that are not high school competitors should stay out of the Brute to give the high school wrestlers a chance to shine, then have the high school wrestlers stay out of the Kids State and give the kids a chance to shine in their own tourney.

Thats a load of **** that they should have their own tourney when they compete in the kids tourneys, the kids have their own season that they work through from early October till end of March, the high schoolers show up the last month and take up mat space at Kids State. If high school wrestlers can compete in the Kids State and Brute offers the "kids" grades 1-8 at chance to compete in their tourney they have just as much right as the high schoolers. I worked at tables at the Brute and saw "kids" grades 1-8 demonstrate some great technique this weekend. There were several times I saw very poor technique when I worked mats that had the high school kids.

I support the high school kids being in the Kids State as our State Tourneys are broken up with the 4 classes 1-3A,4A,5A,6A. I would love to see a Grand State for the top 6 in each weight class the week after High School State. IF this is the attitude that high school kids have toward "Kids" being in the Brute when the high schoolers attend the Kids State then I need to reevalute where my support should be.

The rest of you have a Happy Easter.


Jeff Roberts

Try to respond to the comments:

Sportsfan02 - 1st comment, wth are you talking about, be more specific regarding comments regarding improvement of tournaments.

Regarding promotion of USA events, you are simply wrong here. USAOK does it at the Roller Tournaments in Oklahoma, and they, USA,not USAOK, do it in Reno, for those of us who have been there over recent years we have seen it.

Regarding profits, they made mention of programs they have contributed to, I don't recall of them and I think this is a fair question.

Regarding the Coliseaum staff, YES. I have found them to at times be rude, and inconsiderate. Don't assume that everyone has made up their complaints regarding this organization. Also don't make too many assumptions regarding experiences, for your information I used to promote events, concerts and the like in the area. I worked with many organizations over the years including WSU, the Cotillion, Century 2, The Bicentenial Center, and others. During that time, as a promoter, I found the establishment at the Coliseum very difficult to work with, and thus refused to work with them. As a volunteer at HS State in the past I have also seen this same attitude. As to the other locations where I promoted concerts, I found them much different. Of course, all of us complaining about that facilty could be wrong and you could be right. I could say more to you but believe that would be a waste of time, especially to the man who told me to move back to Oklahoma when I first moved here.

Jeff, please reread what I said, especially my response to wrestlingmom, I think you will see that I never said they shouldn't have kids, I suggested other alternatives and ways they should have kids. Ask the High School wrestlers on this issue and the overwhelming majority of them will agree with my statement. Again, I never said I didn't support kids, I said find a way to feature the HS kids. I personally think they deserve it.

Organizers bit off more than the volunteers could chew - should have added just middle school (6th, 7th, & 8th) to see how the facilities worked out. The tournament has multiple purposes - it is a showcase and a fundraiser. I like what they are doing in helping faltering college programs. The demand for kids to attend these events is growing. Tulsa Nationals, USA Folkstyle Nationals, Brute Nationals, Virginia had senior nationals this year but added other grades. They pulled it off. Nearly 3,600 to 4000 matches in 2 days. The problem with wrestling that many grades is that you need one more day and you need another day of volunteers, extra day of facility rental, another day of officals. The high school numbers may stay about the same but the kids number will grow and the problems with running it in two days will also grow.
All and all if you have ever run a tournament. I just say unbelievable that they ran nearly 2000 kids through registration and weigh-ins, skin checks in 2 hours. I am sure organizers are going to take suggestions and make some changes. I like the grade thing. But if they are going to include youth wrestling - Then they may have to do something like combine
1-2 grade, 3-4 grade, 4-6 grade, 7-8 grade, 9-10 grade, 11-12 grade. 6 Divisions by grade or age. That would create bigger brackets - I am not sure if you would have fewer matches.
Maybe keep split session both days 4 grades in the morning, afternoon, and evening. I am rambling so I'll quit here.

"One thing that has come up, a lot lately, is bashing of clubs that put on tournaments. I have been reviewing those posts and some, as the one mentioned on this thread have been removed. I also keep a record of IP Addresses regarding posts that are inappropriate. As moderator, I will not allow those types of posts when the intent is obvious to do harm to a club. These clubs are putting on tournaments and giving the kids an opportunity to wrestle, anything that could be perceived as being detrimental to a tournament will not be tolerated. That does not mean we can’t be critical of certain components of a tournament, we all welcome constructive criticism in that the intent is to make better, not tear down and destroy."


What promotions, and please be specific?


Afraid I'm going to need examples of this one too. Again, please be specific. I don't know how anyone has contact with the Coliseum staff unless you are doing something improper. In all of my years there I have not had any contact with them other than going in and out of the door.


I try not to assume anything, including the accuracy of things I read on a message board.


All of your vast life experiences never cease to amaze me!


I admit, I was wrong! Looking back now, I find you were much more genuine then, when you were pimping everything to do with Oklahoma wrestling and bashing everything about Kansas wrestling.

I don't have a high schooler yet but in a few years will. I definately agree that the high schoolers need an avenue of their own to showcase. After all, it is the high schoolers that are trying to get college scholarships, not grades 1-8. When the elementary/junior high kids are in high school, it will be their turn to showcase. I agree that there can be room for everyone, but let's make sure the highschoolers aren't getting overlooked, and are given the shot to "show what they have" in front of scouts. I know when my son is in high school, I would appreciate the chance at that without too many other distractions. It is my understanding that highschoolers cannot attend any national tournaments (cliff keen, liberty, etc) while their high school season is going on - that gives the grades 1-8 a chance to showcase without highschool! It all works out in the end....

You know something sportsfan, maybe all of the flack you have been getting you deserve. Of course you are still among the ones people most want to know, it is so easy to make your posts without owning up to your comments. Tell me where a club was bashed; maybe you need a refresher on reading comprehension. These are suggestions that hopefully brute will listen to. I honestly think they will as they listened to things from last year and made those improvements. By the way, can you tell us your thoughts of the tournament since you are so quick to make the comment you made, or was that just a personal comment as I am far from the only one who has made the comments I did? I didn't think so, you likely weren't there. Then again, you single out my approach to get make honest suggestions to help the tournament, even ignoring the part where I state several good things about the tournament. I could gladly take the comment above regarding clubs and so forth and pick it apart, but you seem to continue to be on a one man vendetta, that doesn’t surprise me though.

Regarding specifics at the Roller tournaments, announcing from the stands USA events, having a table set up so that people could sign up for USA wrestling and so forth.


Examples from the Kansas Coliseum, too many to mention here, but you want some specifics with names, contact me privately and I can give you specifics of examples I witnessed while working the pass gate last year, and I can give you further examples of names of individuals while promoting events there. Then again, I don't expect that from you as you like to hide behind your little screen name as an assumed sportsfan02.

Thanks regarding he back handed compliment about my experiences. Of course you want proof, that is fine again contact me, I'll let those things stand. You want the bands, you want verification do a little checking on your own, otherwise you don't deserve the time to prove to you your need to know.

Regarding your last comment, nice to know you made the comment and you own up to it. Of course another member and their assumed names in the past have brought up the pimping comment, and of course only they, used that language, it makes me wonder. By the way, want to tell me what it was I was pimping and how I was pimping everything to do with Oklahoma and bashing Kansas. In fact that post wasn’t much different than many others that have been made since over the years, almost always after Kids State. I will also challenge you to show me any time I have ever “bashed” anything about Kansas wrestling. You can't because I haven’t; anyone who knows me knows that, people can read on their own. Truth is sportsfan, I think I know who you are, in fact I am pretty sure after this post and the language you and another poster in the past have used, but we can debate that as well if you want.

Tell you what; you are such a great example of perfection, why don't you fill us in. Since you know so much about the tournament this weekend, why don't you tell us your thoughts. Please I am awaiting the reply. Tell me while you are at it why you want the specifics you want, I’ll be glad to give them, then again, maybe every other poster including KSHSAA can talk about why they are moving the tournament from the Coliseum and what specific problems they had there. Of course I guess they are making that up as well.

I think with it being a fund raiser you should def have the little kids this will def bring in a lot of money!! Entries, plus more money at the gate( little ones always bring several parents where a lot of h.s. kids go with coach) and everyone knows nobody spends as much at a consession stand as someone with little kids! I have all the faith that this will be better organized next year! And I hope they keep the little ones involved! As for the people complaining about the cost, that must be because they didn't win! I mean the winners got a singlet, medal, trophy and a $45 adidas watch! Not to mention the nice jacket and shirt for the coach! Besides It is a fundraiser!! Come on here! I personaly loved the clinics and the close hotels!!

The older kids got an $85 watch... coaches got pullovers... and if u got a kid in the finals ... a black coaches shirt

Flack? What flack?


Without owning up to my comments? I own up to all my comments and don't delete my old posts like some other posters are inclined to do.


I never said a club was bashed!


Suggestions are what I thought myself and other posters were doing on the kids board to which you responded with your above threat to delete them. I was simply pointing out the double standard not passing judgement on the validity of all your "suggestions".


The tournament was not held in Kansas, was not hosted by a Kansas club and was not sanctioned by USAW, so I have no opinions or thought good or bad.


I singled you out because you were the first to post "suggestions" and you had previously come down on people doing the same.


I'm not certain if you are understanding that those comments quoted in my previous post were made by you?


The Roller tournaments are at what time of the year? It would make sense that USAW would be selling cards in the Fall as opposed to the Spring. I'm still not certain what if any "support" that offers to Roller or would be to Brute.



That is what I thought!


Welcome!


That is what I thought.


Again, I own up to all my comments and I don't go back and delete my own posts.


So, either he or I might be right?


I wish I could but I don't believe the archives go back that far and besides, I think you deleted most of those posts.


Please pass that information along to me. Sounds like he and I have something in common!


I know the reason the tournament moved from the Coliseum. Rick Bowden said it himself in the Eagle interview. MONEY!

Flack what flack - start here: Unmask sportsfan02 on the kids forum.

Have I deleted posts? Yes, and some for good reason, want a specific answer let me know so I can post them to you via pm, of course you won't do that. You will simply respond with, “Just as I thought” because you obviously don’t think. Challenge me on any post I have ever deleted, go ahead challenge me. I will say this, I will admit I have removed posts where I maybe made a mistake or the issue was dealt with in a private manner.

And you make an assumption that I am the only one who can delete posts on the kids’ forum, suppose you tell me the post that ticked you off so much that I deleted. I will delete personal attacks that are unfounded, sounds like you take that personally as you like to make those attacks as you have indicated here. You continue to have the inability to see a suggestion as a possible method in helping things out. You can do that without personal attacks. Tell me or show me a personal attack that includes a positive comment, for example like the one made towards Brute. I took a ton of kids last year, and another large group this year. Again, a point you never mentioned before coming on here and blasting me, tell me your thoughts about this tournament you obviously attended in order for you to come on and start making the comments you did. Come on now I am waiting.

I am not saying that promotion of USA events benefits Roller, as to when USA cards are purchased, they are purchased throughout the year. You asked for an example, I gave you one. I am not talking about selling cards, I am talking about providing a venue where non USA wrestlers participate and information is given to promote the organization. Are you assuming you don't want these organizations to promote USA Wrestling? As to your original post you stated:

So you want USAW to set up a booth or banners or what, at a non-USAW sanction event? Sorry, it simply isn't going to happen at this event or any others and rightfully so.

I stated and provided information that in fact, the very thing you said isn't going to happen at this event or any others, and rightfully so, does in fact happen. The problem is, you don't go to those events so you can't honestly say you know the answer. Now get this, many here do go to those events and can verify that in fact it does happen

As to specific comment, you and or anyone else can contact me I will gladly provide information regarding some staff being rude at the tournament. You want names, sorry I didn’t write down names, I can tell you that some of the security have gone way overboard, including not letting coaches, and workers into the back gates when volunteering for the tournament. A specific example here is telling me, and other volunteers last year that we had to go in through the main gate in order to get downstairs. Now think about this, going in through the main gate required payment, and even with payment you couldn’t get to the volunteer check in to get the information and help because it was on the main floor. We have all heard the stories about the security giving people difficulty in situations like this. I have also personally observed them be rude to wrestlers telling them to leave the mat when they were getting ready to wrestle. There are other things, but none of them or these will do any good as you continue on your personal vendetta. Obviously you wouldn't know rude if it stepped up and bit you on the rear as you seem to have no idea how to interact with someone. That is clear from the postings here and even the way you have responded.

As to your back handed comment, I'll let people see it for what it is. By the way, tell us about your authority and what all you have done as of recent for any of the Kansas wrestlers other than come on these forums and put people down, make false comments, and act like you are God?

As to you owning up to your comments, LIAR, you don't even use your name and use the anonymity of these boards protect you because you know you can hide behind your sportsfan02 name. In fact you make a point of it, including letting it be known in the recent past that you removed the pm contact method.

I could go on and on, but frankly, you aren't worth the time of day to me as far as I am concerned as I consider you a coward. You know who I am and others you continue to put down on these forums, but for some reason you continue to blast away. After all of your attendance at District 2 Meetings and all of your knowledge of District 2 I suspect it is because you know that if people found out who you are you would lose any power you think you have.

For those that don't know where all of this started, after attending my first Kansas state tournament some time ago, actually about 5 years now, I made mention of several things I thought the tournament could improve upon, one of those was allowing 6 and under, of which on that point I have almost changed my opinion all together and several other things. Sportsfan02 said I was blasting Kansas wrestling, despite the fact that I said how good the tournament was, how tough the competition was, how much of an honor it was to be at the tournament and to be a part of Kansas Wrestling and the numerous other things that was positive about the tournament including its obvious great fan support. In fact, and I forget who it was, someone made an almost identical post after a recent post and he of course never said a negative thing. He has also blasted me for "pimping" basically called me a "liar" about losing money, and said in one of the first posts, which he admits to earlier, essentially, that since Oklahoma was only 45 or so miles south of Wichita I should move back. Now I may be wrong about this, but if possible, I invite Mike Juby or any other administrator who has the capability to pull up the old comments and post them so folks can see for themselves.

He continues to make personal attacks of which and nothing has been done. I will gladly leave these forums permanently if he can prove, or I can't defend and prove any comment I have made on these forums including my contacts and work with the venues provided in an earlier post. I would be willing to even make that a legal binding agreement to go up against a legal binding agreement on his own to do the same. Will put it up to a vote of the executive board as to who is telling the truth. Come on Sportsfan02, please take me up on this one. He says for example that I was the first one to make suggestions. I suggest he goes to the other threads that were started before this particular thread and read for oneself, including checking out the dates and times of the postings. One will see at that point there were obvious other posts, and others suggestions made.

I don't know what Sportsfan02 beef is. I have obviously ticked him off some where along the line, back as far as when I first came here. I will stand by my words, and by my integrity, it is why I use my name on my posts. Frankly this individual continues to blast away and I laugh, I laugh because he is such a coward to hide behind the comments and never use his name where he can be approached and confronted about his comments and the manner of personally attacking people.

Sportsfan02 you accomplished one thing today, you kept my Easter from being what it could have been by being the jerk that you continue to be. Now take me up on my offer, anyone take me up on my offer to verify the things I have stated here. If related to why a certain post was deleted, or more specifics about any work or concerts I did in the area, go ahead, send the pm see if I can answer the question with flying colors. Otherwise, especially for Sportsfan02 either own up to your comments by stating who you are, or bite me, you don't deserve another response. Oh yea, I know your response, “That is what I thought.” But that is always an easy way to divert your answer. At least I provide a name, a method of contact, and other information that members of these forums can check on and verify themselves. If they bother to contact me, they will know I am telling the truth, as the information I can provide will be easy to verify.

How lucky the Kansas City area was to have a national tournament this year that both MO and KS highschoolers could participate in, yet some need to fight about it.

Whats a pimp?

Is there not somewhere these two can take their differences rather than a forum that kids read and adults use for information about camps, clinics,clubs, and upcoming events?

I wish,and have responded to you with a pm explaining the situation. Sportsfan02 because he has no contact information available, including pm's makes it virtually impossible to respond to personal attacks other than via forum response. I have stated my concerns, and peace and will hopefully let this thread be for what it was intended, a way to make suggestions to improve Brute and touranments like it, hopefully those there can give an appropriate response.