I know most Middle School wrestling programs have a split season with boys basketball. I was wondering how many middle schools wrestle before Christmas and how many wrestle after Christmas.

Most of the school around the KC area that I am aware of have Jr. High wrestling before Christmas and before basketball.

24/7

In the Wichita metropolitan area:

The Wichita public schools do not offer middle school wrestling.

The vast majority of the high schools in the AVL-CTL League offer middle school wrestling through two different leagues, the Pioneer League and the Walnut Valley League.

The Pioneer League begins basketball in November and completes the season at the end of January. Wrestling begins after Christmas break and concludes the first week of March. The two seasons overlap for several weeks.

Pioneer League

The Walnut Valley League begins basketball in mid October and finishes the season the first week of December. Wrestling begins after Christmas break and concludes the first week of March.

Walnut Valley League

Maybe we should try to get change in middle school by having statewide the wrestling programs and basketball programs on the same schedule in terms of part of the year to help out on a large state basis to see more competition at tournaments.

I dont know how that would help... Our middle school use all our competition point dualing each other and i am assuming a lot of the other middle school leagues do something simular.

Travius,

It sounds like a lot of the middle schools in Kansas City, Kansas have wrestling teams. Do you know if the middle schools in Shawnee, Overland Park, Lenexa and Olathe have wrestling teams?

I dont THINK that the Shawnee Mission/Blue Valley middle schools have wrestling teams.. I know the 9 KCK middle schools have wrestling teams and I believe Turner Middle School just started a team in the last year or two.

The Shawnee Mission District doesn't have any school sponsored sports for 7&8 graders that I am aware of.

The Shawnee Mission District doesn't have any school sponsored sports for 7&8 graders that I am aware of.

The NCKL (Abilene, Clay Center, Chapman, Concordia, Marysville, Wamego) wrestles before Christmas with basketball afterwards. We have been doing it this way for approximately 6-7 years. I feel, and some may disagree, that it was a change for the better. When we changed, we actually gained a week on our season as well as picking up another tournament. Previously, we had two tournaments, now we have three and next year we will have four. The reason for the change was many-fold. After the long basketball season which extended past X-mas break, kids were saying they wanted to take a season off, now we are first. Next, it totally eliminated the overlap between junior high and kid's fed. The obvious advantage is that a young man can wrestle junior high before X-mas and continue on with as many tournaments as they want after. There was also a huge benefit to basketball because it frees up gym space. Before the change there were 8 teams practicing at the same time. We have 4 gyms, which is more than many schools have. By moving two teams to after X-mas this allowed for less sharing of gym time and early morning or late practices. I definitely think it is the way to go.

Doug Moore

Mill Valley and De Soto started middle school wrestling this year.

In Hiawatha our middle school season starts mid October and ends the first weekend in December with our leaugue tournament. The last couple of years my son averaged about 20 matches in middle school and about 35 in kids. It has been nice to do both...

Olathe does not have a middle school program.

In SEK Jr. High wrestling is after football and before basketball. The teams we have competed against in KS Columbus, Pittsburg, Chanute, Independence, Iola, Cherryvale, Caney, Coffeyville, Parsons, Fredonia and of course the Crestline Spider Monkeys. We also have several teams from MO and OK that have this same schedule.

Good, hopefully that momentum will carry into Shawnee Mission, Blue Valley and Olathe.

Husker Vince,
Maybe, maybe not. The MS wrestling in our area of the state, for the most part is basically novice level. Their is no standard for the season, not many weekend tournaments, and no team score was kept when schools dualed. The coaching, for the most part, is not very good and the wrestling I witnessed was what you would expect from 6U at a USA weekend event. If the goal of the program is to give an opportunity to those who otherwise would not try it, great. I think we should do anything we can to stimulate more interest. The problem is that these programs think that those who have been wrestling since they were six should also partake. These wrestlers do not fit in. No one gains when the match is 15-0 or a first period fall. These same experienced wrestlers are not allowed to compete on weekends, during the school's designated season, in USA or other non-school sponsored wrestling events. An experienced wrestler, such as your son was, might get four or five competitive matches in a two month season. If he was not in the program he could get twenty to thirty competitive matches. I subscribe to the wrestling the best makes you better philosophy and MS is about as far from that as you can get. The kids that need the program then harass the experienced wrestlers as do some of the coaches to participate. I believe the MS programs would be stronger and improve greatly if the experienced kids wrestled but not by wrestling inexperienced kids at the events. The practice rooms could use the experienced kids as could the coaches who haven't been exposed to some of the higher levels of wrestling that these experienced kids have been involved in. However, should these kids give up their opportunity to get better? I don't believe so. Again, another example of KSHSAA oppression

Will I cant say I completely agree with you on this one. In KCK hour middle school wrestling season is from The last week of October till the first or second week of December. And speaking for the masses, you wont miss much of the USA season at all.

There are some downsides to middle school wrestling as u pointed out. Mostly due to the lack of experience. I have been lucky enough to coach maybe not the best but one of the larger middle school programs in the state. I think between 6-8th grade is a good time to present the sport to kids before they reach high school. Once they reach High School its almost a losing effort.

Maybe experienced kids won't get as many competitive match in MS but there is so much more to gain. Our middle schools compete in nothing but duals and double duals. In my opinion there is nothing better to build a team environment then dual meets.

There is nothing like wrestling for your school or being the team captain if u are one of the better wrestlers. There is nothing like being a good teammate and helping the others learn moves or understand how the match works. Maybe in those ways that outstanding wrestler can became a better wrestling (by teaching and helping others) and a better person (by being a good leader).

But if we are about the bottom line... winning... then yeah everyone should sit out middle school wrestling. I dont care how good your coach is u cant become a good wrestling in 6 weeks ( the length of our middle school season).

Thank you, you said it a lot nicer than I would have. Makes you wonder why we don't have more middle school programs and why they even bother keeping team points in high school.

Will, this is my primary reason why I think the programs are good for high school wrestling in Kansas. I think anything we can do to stimulate more participation is great and I believe these programs would get some kids started who might otherwise not get involved until high school. By that time I would agree with Travius that it is getting to be a little too late for most of them and it would be better to keep them involved in high school to have them start earlier in 6 thru 8th grade rather than waiting to start as a freshman. I think the Shawnee Mission, Blue Valley and Olathe school districts could really benefit in their high school wrestling programs if they would start getting more middle school kids introduced to the sport.



I know my son did experience a similiar situation as a freshman in high school because due to the competitiveness of the Aquinas wrestling room he had to wrestle JV for most of his freshman year. Most of the matches were of the nature that you described and it was very much like wrestling novice for him. He did have a practice advantage to the middle school situation that you described in that he was able to practice his freshmen year with the Aquinas varsity. Although he did not benefit much from all those less than 1 minute pin matches his freshman year and it was difficult for us as parents to watch, I will have to say that he really did enjoy the season. The reason he did was because he was spending his Saturdays with other freshmen at the JV meets and he was relating very well to his new classmates. He really was happy being part of that JV team as a freshmen. That was more important to him as a freshman than progressing to the fullest extent as a wrestler in his freshman year. He had no aspirations beyond high school wrestling as a freshman and it was more about fun and being a teammate with kids he liked. I know from that experience that if he had gone to a public middle school with a wrestling team or if there was a CYO wrestling league option at the grade school that he attended that he would have made the choice to be part of that team. I agree with you though that I wish the middle school kids who have a lot of experience also had the option to practice and maybe even occassionally wrestle outside the middle school competition as long as it did not conflict with the school schedule of competition. If Jacob had been part of a middle school or CYO team, we would have gone that route (if it had been allowed by the governing bodies of each organization) but during the season we would have encouraged him to give the middle school schedule preference if there were conflicts. In fact we would have insisted on it before we would have allowed him to work with both teams.

Husker Vince and Travius,

I agree with both of you. You are just spinning it differently.

Sport0, take your dentures out, put your Depends back on and go back to bed

I think there should be MS wrestling for all of the reasons you listed and I do believe if experienced wrestlers participate they should have to prioritize MS wrestling if there was a conflict with outside wrestling. My point about score keeping wasn't about winning it was to highlight the stupidity of the KSHSAA restriction. If there is not a standard season, no scores, records or team competitions what is the point of not allowing OPEN wrestling during the season? Travius, you are wrong about open opportunities. There are tournaments available starting in mid September and every weekend up to this one which has the last of the Folkstyle events kids can participate in.

Some middle school programs have their season in Jan and Feb which is the heart of the KS USA schedule. Most of these programs have nothing scheduled on the weekend so these kids should be permitted to go to the Salina T of C or whatever tournament they want.

The other thing is that I don't think it is good for the experienced wrestlers to be pressured by MS coaches to wrestle when it will not be beneficial. You will develop bad habits wrestling kids who are not competitive. My son was pressured by the MS coaches at his school until I called them and told them NO. These are the same coaches I invited to attend Tony Purler sessions to learn and they told me they didn't have time. There you have it.

Some kids wrestle to have fun but some kids want to use their time to get better. Those kids don't have time to waste wrestling MS, novice, or JV. I understand that you may not have a choice but to wrestle JV and JV is weak because the depth in KS is not there to support a strong JV schedule of events. In fact, JV kids could get better (those that qualify for 15U by wrestling open tournaments than they will ever get by wrestling JV but again this is not allowed by the KSHSAA.) If a kid has aspirations beyond HS then the KSHSAA should not be throwing up hurdles to prevent them from getting better. I am not against MS school wrestling, just the over regulation of it and the lack of understanding that most MS coaches have for being able to coach it for experienced wrestlers.