shorten the season for who? us and the kids who like the season the way it is. coaches, and parents know when its time to hang it up for the season for there child. If you thinks it's to long why not start them later in the season, stop them eairler in the season, or half as many tournament or practices.

My son is 5 and he is loving it the prctice, running and as many tournaments as our budget will allow, as i am sure there are a lot of other kids that are not burned out.

one more thing before i leave this post ! I have seen alot of coaches and parents when the kid wins first thing out of there mouth is you should have done this or that what ever happened to good job first. and what about the kid who looses, the coach or parents yell at him making him feel small, ask yourself this if you are so smart and good at wrestling, why was you not a national champion oops because you was not that good!!! this is intended for those who do this AND TO THE GELTLEMAN WON'T MENTION HIS NAME THAT A WAS ARGUEING WITH ABOUT YELLING AND DEGRADING HIS SON, YOU KNOW WHAT I CALLED YOU MY MIND HAS NOT CHANGED YET.

I wonder if you will still think the season isn't too long when your son is 10....12....14.

I was on the same side as you when my first son was just starting. I couldn't understand why someone would be complaining. Now that my first son is 16 and my other two sons are doing kids federation too, I understand. And I think if you were to look at the numbers, you will see that we DO have a problem in our sport with burning out kids. If we didn't, we wouldn't see such a drop-off in the numbers between the age groups.

The group that complains the most about wanting their 6 year olds to have a full season and even compete at the state are the parents of the 5 and 6 year olds. That is a little understandable as you are looking out for your own child. But, not all children are like yours....and other people have learned from experience and history that something isn't right with our current system when a large majority of 6 year olds will not be wrestling in junior high and high school.

IS IT THE SEASON IS TOO LONG OR DO THE KIDS THAT DROP OUT JUST DO NOT WANT TO WRESTLE? THE LOGIG HERE IS IF KIDS PLAY FOOTBALL THERE ALL GOING TO PLAY FOOTBALL IN HIGH SCHOOL, THATS JUST NOT THE CASE I VERY DOUBT ANY KID THAT DROPS OUT OF WRESTLING HAS EVER SAID I AM DONE BECAUSE THE SEASON IS SO LONG. PARENTS AND COACHES CAN MAKE THE SEASON LONG OR SHORT, NO ONE HAS SAID YOU HAVE TO WRESTLE THE ENTIRE SEASON, SOME WILL EXTEND THE SEASON WITH FREESTYLE AND GRECO ROMAN, SORRY FOR THE CAPS JUST NOTICED

The wonderfull thing about the kids season is that it is only as long as you make it. You can tailor it to fit your kid. If you want to attend 1/2 the practices do that. If you are getting tired of the weekend grind take a few weekends off throughout the year to keep them fresh. The key is to let you little guy or gal dictate the pace to avoid burnout. Every kid is different so what works for your kid may not work for mine.

why do the 6 and under not belong to the big show. Look at the numbers and it will show you that without those 6 and unders the number of wrestlers in Kansas would be way way way down. So take the 6 and unders out and wrestling dies in kansas. You may think the dads are forcing the kids to wrestle but thats what you get for thinking. Those kids deserve the right to wrestle as much as any other kid. I do think maybe it should be on a different venue because I dont want you to have the right to watch my 6 year old wrestle. Its probably boring to those of you that dont have 6 year olds. I would rather watch 6 year olds all day than watch some of the boring 16 year old kids. I think Ottawa has done a fine thing in starting what is called the 6 and under state but its not centrally located for those of you who have to travel from Ulysses and Liberal area. There needs to be some major changes if its going to be the actual 6 and under state. I still dont think if your going to include those kids then they shouldnt need to buy a usa card. Dont even start talking about the stupid insurance that nobody will use even if the kid does get hurt.

Bockman most people that don't have 6u won't watch them anyway.To say that 6u matches are more exciting than 16u is one of the most idiotic statements I have ever heard. The insurance also protects the coaches and the facility, If you didn't have a card you would proably be practicing in your garage, because the schools wouldn't let you practice there.How long have you been involved in wrestling? When your kid is 16 you will have a different perspective.

I have been around wrestling since I was 6. I will tell you that I enjoy watching 6 year olds far more than the 16 year olds. thats my opinion. Even when my kid is older I will still enjoy watching the 6 year olds. So I guess if you think its idiotic maybe you are the idiot.

I agree you see so much great technical wrestling in the 6u division. The 16u just roll around on the mat and frequently leave crying. I guess I should have called you a genius.

i didnt say they were better wrestlers. they are more fun to watch there genuis.

This battle can go on till were're blue in the face!! The way I see it (not having a high schooler) Most 16yr. old and plus had their shot. the poor little 6 yr. olds did not. Yes I have a 6u but that is not what drives this post. All high school wrestlers have their chance, do they not? What about the little guys who want to have their shot. The 6u. 8u. 10. 12u. are the future of wrestling without them continuing to progress the sport would die!!! So what is this about high schoolers getting a second chance or little guys wanting to be as good as the high schoolers?? Just my thoughts.

At the beginning of this year I was totally for 6U being added to the mix. Now people are talking about cutting 16U to add room for 6U. I will not even entertain that idea. How will you feel in 9 years when your little one is wrestling 16U. Let's not cut off our nose to spite our face. Do you people really think that the parents will end the season early if their little one is burning out? Not a chance, they will push them to "finish what they started". I know, I've been there. Yes, I thought 6U should get their shot, but now I'm not so sure. I would have to disagree that they are the future of wrestling. Without the 14U and 16U the High School teams will die. Without High School teams, there will be no need for 6U. 6U is fun to watch, but most have no idea what they are doing. I'm sure there is an answer in the middle ground. Too many answers are falling too far on both sides of the spectrum. Until we get a reasonable solution I will be happy taking our little ones to Ottawa.

A FEW POINTS: In terms of Lodging if it was moved to a Wichita venue, I think there would be a lot less lodging issues. A very large number of people would just sleep in their own beds. That would free up a lot of rooms!
As far a venue options, why wouldn't Koch Arena at WSU not be an option??
I think the adding of 6U and removing 16U from kid state is a fantastic idea. The 16U already have the chance to compete at HS state. I also think that move alone would off set the cost of a much larger venue!

The intention of 16U state is to offer an opportunity for underclassmen who didn't make it to High School state. I think 16U should be all HS kids who didn't make it or maybe place at HS state. The bottom line is that many HS programs are dieing and the 16U is an opportunity for JV and other inexperienced kids to get a shot. Honestly, being a 6U State Champ is really just a joke. More for the dads and moms not for the kids. Heck many of them will not even remember wrestling before they were 8 years old.

Koch which used to be Henry Levitt (sp?) Arena once hosted kids state. It was when there were only 8,10,12, and 14 age groups. This was in the 70's and there were as many and maybe more kids wrestling then as there is now with the exception of the 6U group.

[quote=bockman]why do the 6 and under not belong to the big show.

they do belong it's just called 8u. if your 6u kid is good enough to be 6u st champ then they are good enough to compeat with 8u kids, or are you just looking for a 3rd 4th 5th or 6th place finish to say your kid placed in state???
dont fix what isnt broke.

... and in some states, they have a 4 & under division!

The natural tendency is to develop "tunnel vision." If a situation doesn't impact our kids or ourselves we tend to dismiss it.

Yes, there is a dramatic drop off! A fact I use in my clinics is that 70% of kids, are no longer participating in competitive sports, by the time they reach the age of 13. That's a big number and it does not effect wrestling alone.

There are two primary reasons. First, kids aren't having any fun and the second, they get too much pressure from adults!

I am sure that all the 5, 6, 7 year olds that we are discussing here will be the exceptions! After all, they love it now so ... they will love it in the future!!

I posted in another thread about how we are an "instant gratification" society. It might be a lot easier to get yours now ... instead of waiting!

I don't have a 16 and under, sometime I hope to. But, those 6 and under parents who want to eliminate 16's either don't understand (which is likely) or have a complete lack of respect for the people who have given them a wonderful opportunity (also likely).

The 6 and under number isn't 5 and 6 year olds, it's everyone under 7 who rolls around on the mat. We have had several 3 year olds in our practice room who have older brothers and they need the card to roll around with the bigger kids. Truth be told, a good number of the card carrying 6 year olds quit after a couple of weeks. Look at your own club and honestly count how many 6 year olds started the year that aren't there now. My point is that 1900 plus kids does not represent currently wrestling 5 and 6 year olds.

Comparing any 6 and under number to the February 16th 14 and 16 year olds number is irresponsible and shows a complete lack of knowledge about the organization. In the end, there will be around 1500 to 2000 of the most long term dedicated wrestlers and their families in these brackets.

The 16 year olds and their families and those before them have made this an organization that your 6 year old wants to be a part of. Recent 16 and under brackets have included some names like Juby, Grater, Deshazer, Furches, and Eck. This year will be Cokeley and others. Great wrestlers to be sure, but more importantly tireless supporters of our organization. They, and many others like them have made this a sport that you and your kid want to be a part of. It wasn't always so glorious. These kids and their families and those who they compete with and against represent what we should all strive for, and to suggest they are want to be wrestlers in need of a second chance is wrong on many levels.

Unfortunately for the sport, about half of these 6 and unders will retire from wrestling within 3 years. If you think it will just be the bad ones, you are wrong. I can personally name five 8 and under state champions who quit before age 12. If you think it will be just kids who don't come from wrestling families, you are wrong. All of their fathers wrestled and coached.

Pace yourself. Make it fun. Try to become one of the 16 and under wrestling families instead of trying to eliminate them.

Here is a point that parents of 5-6 year old wrestlers need to consider. Pushing or even letting a 5-6 go with several nights of practice, multiple tournaments and high pressure events like state, and I will even through in Tulsa, etc. will really have very little benefit to your wrestler in 3 years and beyond, and have a very high risk of a negative burnout effect. I completely understand the emotions of wanting your small one to excel, but as many who have been through the fires are trying to warn you, your little one will be better off if you hold them for just a few years until they are like 7-8. Let them wrestle and have fun in limited amounts until then.

My son wrestled one night a week at practice and went to 3 novice tournaments a year at 5 and 6. Then at seven we tried some opens and towards the end of the year he qualified for state. (He got thumped once he got there). By the next year he was state runner-up, and by age 9 state champ and kicking the crap out of the kids that were studs at 5-6. The learning is much more advanced and kids are able to learn better technique with just a few more years more of growing up. Maybe I let my son go too early as well and he will get caught by those that are hungrier and started seriously at say 10. I do believe that at some point it becomes too late unless your kid is so naturally gifted he can overcome, but holding them in just a little until 7-10 will surely not hurt them, and in almost every case help them down the road.

I am sure there are examples of that 5 year old stud that is still kickin tail in HS, but they are 1 in 100. The problem is we all think we have that one. My son is now 13 so time will tell if I timed it right and he will continue to advance. It looks good so far, and I will grant you it's different in every kid, but I guess my point to this rambling is that your odds are so much higher of having a long term successful experience with your children in wrestling if you resist the tempation to let them go too early.

That said I also believe they are your kids, and yours to guide as you wish. I would go along with 6u state even though I personally don't agree with it, if that is what the majority wants. I am done now, and good luck to all as we approach the end of the folkstyle season.

Mike Pursel 24/7

People are so quick to say "You are just saying that because your kid is 6U" or "You just don't know because you don't have a 16 year old"!
I do not have a 6U and my son will wrestle 16U next year!
Don't be so quick to judge everyone and think they have personal interest. My opinions are ones that I think will help better and grow the sport.
Also, the main reason you see the drop at 14 & 16 is because when they move out of kids wrestling and the sport changes. You don't see 3 kids from the same HS at the same weight wrestle in the same event. Kids leave because they don't want to wait 2 or maybe 3 years for serious mat time or a chance to go to state because they are behind an older/stronger wrestler.
If 16 years olds wanted to wrestle for just a kids club and have them in the kids state event then I would be ok with that. They would really be apart of kids wrestling.
BUT, you see these kids come down out of HS (some of them already placing at HS State) and they want to wrestle kids state. What's the purpose of that?
Sometimes they can also throw off the vibe in the kids club practices. They have their own way they prefere to warm up. They feel they are above the some of the drills. They can be hard to coach because they are so used to their style that they had with their other coaches.
THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO ALL 14 & 16 YEAR OLD WRESTLERS OR CLUBS!! SOMETIMES THEY ADD GREAT VALUE AND EVEN HELP WITH YOUNGER WRESTLERS!!
It is just my opinion of what I have seen happen in a few different clubs!
I would love to not have to add or leave out any age group! I just think that developing a stronger/BIGGER foundation of younger wrestlers is more valuable to the growth of the sport then retaining the smaller older group that we have.
SO, if I HAD TO PICK, I would choose educating & growing the younger group!

You folks opposed to 6U state are conveniently overlooking some facts. Those are as usual
1. There is already a (soon to be two), 6U state! Do you refuse to send your kids to those tournaments?
2. 6U can already attend THE state tournament in the 8U division. Realistically the only ones who have much of a chance of doing so are the smaller/ligher weights. Would you then support a ban of anyone under the age of 7 competing at THE state tournament in order to be fair to all 6 year olds?
3. The pressure at Ottawa and I would guess the new tournament is every bit as much if not more than would be displayed at THE state tournament if 6U were there. Do 6U need to be exposed to 64 man brackets in a one day tournament?

If you are truely against a 6U division at THE state tournament then be true to those feelings and support an outright ban on the participation of 6 year olds at any tournament.

If you think I, or anyone else this board is against educating and growing the younger group then you are sadly mistaken. The question is, how do we do that? People on both sides of the issue have legitimate points and generally have good motives.

The question is do 6 and under kids benefit from a 3 week, win or go home format where 1700 will fail and 200 will succeed? Myself, and many people who have dedicated a good deal of their lives to the sport think not. Are we right? Not necessarily. Are they "knuckleheads" as was said earlier? I don't think so. Are the 16 and under wrestlers hangers on who need a second chance as has been implied? Again, I don't think so.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion on the matter and these discussions are great. Hopefully all of these 6 and under families are in it for the long haul.