To answer your question, I have been watching wrestling in the Eastern part of the state. To elaborate on your response, an illegal headlock is similar to an illegal chicken wing, a full-Nelson, a head scissors, or any other illegal hold. The rulebook says that this should be stopped immediately to prevent injury to the defensive wrestler. The officials I have watched this year have, for the most part, done a very good job of protecting participants.

Just make the weight you sign up for or move up to the next weight. By, the way Nix I have 3 boys and we've been involved in wrestling for 8 years and none of my boys have ever showed up at a weigh-in over weight. Depending on travel time to tournaments my boys have either weighed the same as we did at home or 2 to 3 tenths lower. So, there's not much difference in the scales. Just by a good dependable scale and you don't have to worry. At Tanita.com they have some very nice scales. They have a wide variety fo scales and a very good price range. Just pick the one that fits your income. We picked one that was around midrange between all the scales. And it has been very accurrate. You said your son has weighed in under 40lbs all year then why was he wrestling 43lbs at Great Bend?

The wrestlers are preparing for the future. Ounces will matter in high school and these wrestlers will have to make weight twice for two day events like state. A few comments on what I have read:

1) Friday weigh ins. You cannot do this. With gas approaching the $4 per gallon mark it is not in the best interest to make parents drive to a venue twice. It might be the difference in participating or not participating. If we eliminate even one wrestler because of this then we have damaged the sport.

2) If you allow wrestlers to move up a weight class you will be causing a huge nightmare! Parents/wrestlers will enter at a lower weight class knowing that they might not be able to make weight so there is no risk. We had 12 wrestlers out of 598 entered not make weight this past weekend at Distict 1 South sub. Some of these wrestlers weighed MORE on Saturday morning than they did when they left on Friday night!! I know I just said that we shouldn't eliminate participants but since weight is what is used to determine how the kids are to be divided we have to be strict in this area. Be safe and don't push it. For goodness sakes, Kansas already makes it easy by having so many weight classes (every three pounds instead of five) just move up a class when you sign up.

3) A Saturday morning seeding meeting would really delay things. We should however, move back the deadline to entry to one week instead of 10 days. We can make it midnight the Saturday night before the Sunday seeding meeting. The meeting could be held at two. If we go with 6 man round robins there will be very little seeding conducted and the next Saturday there will be LOTS of wrestling. With the use of Trackwrestling this is all very feasible.

4) One of my favorite things about wrestling is the discipline that it requires! You have to manage your weight, work hard, give up junk food, keep your mind sharp, etc. Make weight or go home!

The way things are today (less than 50% of our card holders signed up to participate in sub districts) we are in need of some major changes but I don't think getting rid of the ounces is one of them.

I would like to through out a different idea that I haven't seen discussed in this thread.....first I will give some background.

1. I am assuming that we as adults are in this for the kids.

2. In other threads we have talked about losing kids as they get older, one of the reasons never mentioned is the whole stress of making weight. Whether you are cutting or not it is still an added stresser compared to other sports.

3. I assume we can trust other teams and the adults running the clubs.

4. There has been a lot of talk about tournaments not starting on time, going too long, etc. A lot of this has been contributed to scratches, etc. Also, a lot of talk about gas prices, having to get up early to make weigh ins, etc.

With all that said, I recommend that for OPEN & NOVICE tournaments only (not qualifying tournaments) that the clubs weigh their kids in on Friday night at their practice site and then call in the confirmation to the tournament director by 7:30 or 8:00 pm.

In my opinion I see a lot of advantages to this.....

1. Clubs can submit entries like we always do. Hosting sites can then prepare Trackwrestling and have a 80-90% solution prior to Friday night.

2. Alleviates parents having to drive either Fri. night or early Sat morning to make weigh ins.

3. Keeps kids from having to add on an additional day (Fri night) to wrestling or get up early to drive and make weigh ins and then sit around for 1-2 hrs before wrestling. Shortens the day, improves attitudes, who knows....we may keep some of them wrestling for a lot longer.

4. Once the weigh ins are confirmed to the tournament director then the host team can use Fri night to make changes and get brackets printed before the start of wrestling. In theory then we should be able to start closter to on time.

A friend of ours says they do this in eastern and central Missouri quite a bit. He coached with us in KS for 3-4 years so he has seen both ideas in execution. He says he really likes the idea of Fri night home weigh ins.

No I know that I am assuming that everyone will be honest and if a kid is over then the club will make them work it off. I am willing to take that risk and put the trust in the ADULTS that run the teams. Will some people let things slide a little, yes. Does it really matter for Open and Novice tournaments...No.

Doing weigh ins this way allows clubs to make Fri practices a fun night. You can come in, warm up, drill a little, play a game, weigh in and be done.

I am interested in your thoughts.

Shawn Budke

shawnbudke,
I like the idea you propose for the most part, but there is something inside me that tells me that i cannot trust everyone in their honesty for the home weigh-in idea. As a tournament director myself, this would definetely help cut down on the amount of scratches the day of the tournament after the morning weigh-ins, but i also know that there will always be at least one person who is not totally honest. I think for the purpose of discussion, if we went to this format I would suggest that we also have a mat-side weigh-in right before the match with a certain weight allowance for each weight class. This way, the wrestler who weighed in at home (who may have been sucking down some weight or got passed by a dishonest weigh-in administrator) would not be able to bamboozle his/her way into a tournament. Basically it would be a deterrent for cutting weight and/or lying.

just my thoughts.

Craig Gash
Derby Wrestling Club
Tournament Director

to answer you question packerholic4, greatbend was nix's first tournament, and i was out of town when the club signed him up at that weight, my wife took him to great bend when he weighed in at 38.2 so i guess i lied oop's 1 tournament he did enter at 43 sry if i lied that was 13 tournament ago and i forgot his very first tournament they entered him at 43 but he was still under 40, hope that answerd you question.

as far as scales we have the same one they use at sub's and state in our basement, as if you would have read all the post, you would have seen my boy's weight is not the issue, he has made weight at 14 tournaments, the subject came up at sub's so i thought i would make a post on it.

but my opinion still stands at removing ounce's, and not letting kids move up at weigh-ins.

Maybe it is something that can be done once that certain wrestler has officially made weight a certain amount of times. We all know where they start at the beginning of the year. The problem is after the new year.

If they have made 76 three times, let them weigh at their own scales.

Now we all know there would have to be some protocol for chalenging weights because it would happen.

Thanks for the response Crash99. I have a couple of additional points for everyone to consider....

I agree that we would always have a small # people that may take advantage of the weigh in at home concept. However I offer a couple of additional thoughts...

1. We have heard talk on this board about kids being given 2-3 oz. at the tournament site weigh ins. I have actually seen it happen. On a theoretcal side that bothers me, but on a realistic side it doesn't really when you are talking about an Open/Novice tournament and 5-12 year old kids.

2. I think we make weigh ins and their validity for Open and Novice too much of an issue for kids wrestling. If we want to continue to grow the sport and keep kids wrestling then we have to come up with ways that make it easier on the parents and alleviate stressers on the kids. Heck, the fact that at such a young age they are getting out there and competing is enough stress for most of them. (I know, in high school they will have to do it...in high school you are dealing with young men that can make decisions)

3. Reallistically, someone will always take advantage of the situation...ok...so be it. Eventually what comes around goes around. Let's take an example....If an adult administrator fudges a few oz. on the weigh in what is the worst thing that can happen:

1. Near Term: The kid that was .3 over pins your kid and your kid doesn't place or get a medal in an open tournament.

2. Mid Term (rest of season): The adult administrator continues to allow this to happen during the entire Open/Novice tournament schedule....kid gets to subdistrict and can't make weight...therefore can't wrestle. Too bad for the kid but it is the adult administrator that is to blame not the scales of the host tournament.

3. Long Term (lesson imparted on wrestlers): This is the most serious.....the adult administrator is setting a very bad example for the young kids. Hopefully someone will teach them right from wrong.

Now lets look at the potential benefits:

1. For the wrestler: Friday night practice now becomes fun because it means we get to play a game. Less stress about making weight. More sleep therefore potentially better wrestling. Not as much stress due to the reduction of extra travelling, increased potential to keep them around to the age where on site weigh ins matter (high school).

2. For the Parents & family members (our sports biggest fans): $$$$ savings on gas. $$$$ savings on meals (you have to feed them either after Fri or sat weigh ins). Less time travelling for tournaments. Get a chance to sleep a little longer. Extra $$$$ savings may allow another child to participate or go to more tournaments.

3. For the tournament directors and coaches: Easier to bracket and get them posted. Coaches can then get brackets on Trackwrestling that evening. Tournaments can start on time and hopefully end earlier. Now everyone is happy.

IMO, I think the benefits far outweigh the risks or the negatives. Remember, we are talking about 5-12 year old KIDS for the most part. Lets take the emphasis of the weight. That will get a hold of most of them soon enough.

Shawn Budke

PS- One of the best wrestling events I have ever attended occurred this year at the University of MO. We took about 20 wrestlers to compete with 3 other clubs before the U of MO dual against Oregon State. There were no weigh ins. There were no loudspeakers or announcer. There were no match numbers.

We submitted our kids age, weight and ability a week before. The organizer paired them up. We should up and there were 6 wrestling surfaces. The kids sat around the mat and the coaches would go around and call out their names. They would go to a mat and wrestle. College kids reffed. They got through about 100 matches in less than 1.5 hrs. It was AWESOME!

The kids loved it, the parents loved it and the coaches loved it. Everyone was wrestling just to wrestle...the award you received at the end....pizza and watching University of MO whipp up on Oregon State.

this topic should really be pushed.one idea i've had is a satelite weigh in.for instance hutch is having a tournament we set up weigh ins across the state at different locations,wichita ,wifeild ,salina ....ect. everbody has to make weight just not drive all the way tohutch. i know alot of clubs that would be willing tohelp with weigh ins every fri. instead of driving across the state twice in a weekend. would save alot people time and $$$$$....

Food for thought--Kansas HS still allows home weigh ins for regular tourneys and duals, but not for qualifying tourneys(league, regionals or state). As a parent of 4 wrestlers that usually end up going 3 different directions on the weekends in January, home weigh ins would be a blessing in disguise. My question is, does something like that need to be addressed at the national USAW level? If so, maybe it is something to consider in these times of high fuel prices.

To get back to the subject at hand, as mentioned earlier, I have 4 kids in wrestling, from HS down to Elem age. All 4 have learned how to discipline themselves when it comes to weight. None of them have had to struggle. Our rule is, you don't make weight at the weight you choose to wrestle at, then you don't wrestle. We provide the appropriate food for them at all times to give them the opportunity to make weight. As a parent whose kids make the sacrifices at Holiday time to make sure they make weight, I would feel slighted, for my child, if a child was allowed to wrestle when he was over--by any amount of weight.

wrstlmom1970,

I undestand what you are saying. I don't think anyone is trying to promote the idea of cutting slack on the weights. IMO it is a trust issue between adults. One of the reasons we have tournament site weigh ins for kids is because as adults we don't trust other club administrators to weigh in their own kids. We assume they will cut them slack....hence we have tournament site weigh ins. The assumption in kids club with on site weigh ins is that the people doing the weigh ins at the tournament will not cut anyone any slack. Well I have seen that work both ways. I have seen some tournaments where it is really strict and others where they have given kids .1-.3 lbs.

My recommendation is trying to make things better for all involved rather than getting caught up in different scales, scale certification, etc for open and novice tournaments.

Bottomline is that wrestling costs a good amount of $$$$, it is stressful for little kids, and the season gets very long for a lot of kids and families. One way to reduce some of the above is to allow weigh ins at your own club site the night before. This implies that we trust other adult administrators as much as we trust volunteer dads who do the weigh ins at the open/novice tourneys.

I totally agree that kids should make the weight that they are signed up for or not wrestle if they don't get it off in time.

Shawn Budke

Shawn,
I am one parent that would definitely go for the home site weigh ins. I am also known as a parent that doesn't cut slack to kids in general. I hold parents and kids up to very high expectations and would trust an officer of the clubs to do home weigh-ins. I think formatting it after the high schools would be an ideal situation for everyone, particularly in today's economy(whole other discussion in itself). If we are serious about home weigh ins and trust issues, maybe getting a third party that is removed from the wrestling clubs to volunteer for the home site weigh ins would be an option. I know people will say, who wants to volunteer for a kids club, believe me, we didn't know we had the support in our community for our kids wrestling club, until we asked, and alot of times, asking and saying thank you is all it takes.

I see I was totally wrong on 'just let the kids move up if over weight' as track wrestling will make it easier for the brackets to be fixed. Track wrestling will change a lot things I think in the future. But, with qualifying tournaments there is no way to get around the seeding meeting. And, a season of work should mean something. A kid has earned it and should have a seed he had earned. It is wrestling and it is state time, make weight. As for Shawn's idea, I like, but you should have seen the comments on satelite weighins on the missouri site after the park hill duals. It went on for about 3 weeks with people complaining about the weights of the Iowa and Oklahoma kids. But, this is Kansas.

once again you guy's have changed my opinion, man i hate when that happens. your right if your over by even an ounce, you better go run or no wrestle no weight allowance givin means just that.

but i will never change my opinion on the trackwrestling idea. that being, show up at weigh in and if your over then the computer will put you in the next weight class. you know your body, your parents know your body there just is no excuse for not making weight, and you should not be allowed to wrestle at all if you did not make it.

I know at our tournament back in December, we were strict with the Open kids and gave up to .4 for the Novice kids. Right or wrong, the Open kids should know that making weight is part of the sport whereas the novice kids are still learning the sport. We took a little flak on this position from a few of the clubs but once our position was explained everything was smoothed over. Now in February for our first year wrestlers Novice Championship, we were strict again for all of the Novice wrestlers in regards to making weight. This change in stance on not giving any leeway for Novice kids was due to the nature of the event and the fact that it was pretty much one of the last Novice tournaments of the year for the novice kids. And these kids need to know that making weight is part of the sport by this time in the season.

Back to the question of not trusting adult administrators for home weigh-ins. It has been my experience in the past that there are a couple of clubs ( I won't mention any of them here ) that have brought a few overweight kids late to the weigh-in procedure hoping that they would get a pass so the tournament can start in a timely fashion. This is why I am skeptical on trusting adult administrators to be honest in home weigh-ins.