The chief's last post setting forth the Shawnee Heights/Sante Fe Duel match-up this past season (wherein Jake Kober (a steller wrestler, in his own right) "bumped-up" to test his mettle against the mighty Atticus Disney - one of the best wrestlers in the state of Kansas (arguably the nation, at his given weight) - serves as a perfect example of just the opposite, so-called, "point" I, evidently, quite lamely, attempted to make: that many, if not most, elite wrestlers tend to avoid wrestling each other during the course of the regular season, if at all possible.

I still believe that my suspiscions in these regards hold true. Again, this is not to say that there are not valid, tactical reasons which persuasively argue against allowing these highly anticipated match-ups to take place during the course of the regular season. I know that there are many valid reasons for "avoiding" a steller opponent, before it really counts.

I simply choose to believe that the "Jake Kober's" of the high school wrestling world are, for whatever reason, in large measure,an aberration and not truly reflective of the competitive instincts of many, if not most, elite wrestlers and/or their coaches.

I'd venture a guess that alot of you can name wrestlers of the past, who, "took on all comers" - bumped (up and down) their usual weight brackets, during the course of a regular season, to challenge the very best that the state of Kansas has to offer - when it really didn't matter.

I'd be interested in hearing comments/stories setting forth occassions when elite wreslters of the past, went out of their way to establish their dominance/superiority, against another "stud" wrestler, when nothing was really on the line.

I

Most of the "elite" wrestlers I have been familiar with sought competition. To me, there is a character trait that factors into anyone that might be called "elite!"

There are occasions where a wrestler (or his leadership) will try to tactically gain an advantage by selecting his or her weight class.

I guess it's a matter of wording but I think the elite will take on any comers (provided they are healthy enough to do so).

It is an interesting discussion though ... and the mental toughness it takes to seek competition!!

It has been my casual observation that when, during the course of a regular season, the outcome of a given match-up, between two elite wrestlers, remains the product of a highly anticipated match-up between two elite wrestlers, that one of those competitors (presumable the one most "fearful" of defeat) will somehow find some reason to "bow-out" (be that "reason" a legitimate, tactical reason, or for some reason, less honorable, such as: he just does not want to jeopardize an undefeated record during the course of a season, or otherwise suffer the presumed indignity of a loss at this stage of his career - without regard for the worthiness of his opponent.

I readily accept and acknowledge that this professed sentiment does not conveniently dovetail nicely with the sentiment that most of us probably admire and seek or our elite wrestlers: (i.e "bring 'em all on ... we'll take on all comers ... and let the results on the mat speak for themselves!" But, at our former Secretary of Defense stated: " ... It is, what it is ...!"

I stand by my statements!

... then I would suggest that a wrestler that would find an excuse ... lacks the testicular fortitude be labeled, in my book, as elite!

usawks 1:

I'm hard-pressed to give you any persuasive argurment to the contrary.

Now I have seen a little bit of Kansas Wrestling, coaching Kids and High School since 1987, when I moved back from Colorado/Wyoming. Also wrestled for Salina Central from 1976 to 1980.
Myself, I have seen it both ways, guys dodging and those seeking. The way I look at it is some want to legitimize their elite status by beating the best and some just want a record to remember back when. It seems more available with all those middle weights just being 5 pounds apart. But , I could not say whether they were better then than now or vice versa.
Been some great match-ups and didn't have to go hunting, like Henes and Isenberg.
Could they be the next Garcia and Henning, those guys use to battle, with Garcia always coming out on top, but both went on to become National Champs in college.

Tom Peterman

One thing that I think that I know:

Most all of us truly love it when, during the course of a regular season, an "elite" wrestler from a different weight class, bumps up or down, to take-on another, so-called, "elite" wrestler (particularly so, when each wrestler, is the odds-on favorite to win a coveted state championshiop in his particular class at a given weight), for no better reason, than to test his mettle against the very "best" the state of Kansas has to offer, at or near his given weight.

Now,it's not that they "have" to, or that they "need" to ... I guess that it is just to say that they "want" to, for their own particular reasons.

Now, mind you, I'm not faulting any wrestler who doesn't "want" to put his record/reputation on the line, in a meaningless, regular regular season match-up (where nothing is really at stake) but, I'd venture a guess that that Kansas wrestling community (who avidly follows the sport) will take ample notice.

Now, at least for a guy like me, the question remains, as to whether this is a good idea. Win or lose, how will it ultimately affect the presumed goal of a given competitor to challenge for a coveted "State" title?