321a wrestler, you dont really stand a chance when it comes to getting any remorse from cokely or anyone else. how do you expect someone to semi-agree with you when all you do is attack them personally?

i am a big fan of highschool wrestling, it changed my life. i am also a big fan of western 321a and 4a programs. but the fact of the matter is that the 5 and 6a schools just have more kids, period. therefore a better chance for talent. there is almost no chance of the little schools beating the big schools in any individual competitions. they have too much talent in hundreds of kids in each school.
although do i think that in the past years the small schools could have beaten the bigger schools in a grand state dual tournament? i sure do. but there would have been years the big schools would have won.

you just have to understand the difference in numbers of kids. i personally think its amazing that the small schools ever win the senior classic because of how outnumbered they are compaired to the wrestlers in 5 and 6a!!! if by some miracle teams like smith center, beloit, concordia, colby and clay center had as many kids as derby, goddard and the wichita teams then i honestly think between the combination of those numbers of kids and the talented coaches like charboneau and moore, the big schools would be the teams getting stomped.

hope this might have enlightened a few people, again just my opinion.
sorry if i had any grammatical errors (im just an old wrestler, not a philosopher )

I agree with you. See how well Chief's October 2007 state champions predictions did in my post today on the 5A vs 6A topic. I also agree with you that the only way to settle these questions would be a return to a Grand State tournament. It is unlikely to happen but that would be the best solution to this and another issue (all classes in one location for the benefit of college recruiters so they can see easier all of our best wrestlers at one time and place) that Will has brought up before.

First off Im not asking for sympathy from Cokeley. And I do obviously know that western kansas has a lack of population always has been a problem always will be a problem. Cokely compared this years machups. I was simply stating it would be very different other years. Which is why I stated on another post that the 500 mile rule sucks but I really dont see it being changed, and that if it was different this year probaly wouldnt make a bit of difference, the rule really doesnt help or hinder recruiting by that much. Good kids get recruited and everyone wants to further their chance to wrestle in college has the opportunity. Why i tend to tear down cokely so much is he sees everything from his prospective he doesnt understand situations out here. IM NOT WHINING ABOUT IT ONLY STATING POPULATION IS IN DECLINE IN WESTERN KANSAS. Sports will become less and less important to administrators over the next few years.

321A,

What do I not understand? I grew up in Liberal, I went to FHSU, and I own a farm in Palco. I have a comprehensive understanding of the differences and my problem is that most Western Kansas is in denial that things are not going to return to the status they were in the past. 160 acres doesn't feed a family like it did when the existing county government and school district system was set up. It is time to overhaul it. I really feel that western Kansas administrators are holding back progression because of this denial.

I have not asked to change anything with the existing KSHSAA rules that would negatively impact western Kansas or the 321A schools.

So I must ask, what perspective do you disagree with?

Cokeley:

How are western Ks. administrators holding back progression and how are they to overhaul it?

Are you suggesting they only have two schools in western Ks. and have the students boarded in two areas, such as NW. and SE. Ks?

It is great that you come up with these ideas but tell us how you would solve these problems

Will- not sure if it was 1981 or 1983 but Mark Hewitt an I both went to the Sunflower Classic. It was a great experience. If I remember correctly though alot of state placers did not show up. It was a casual type tournament. In order for it to be successful I believe it would have to be a high school sanction tournament.

Blaise,
You guys might have gone to the one after I graduated in '81. In 1981 no one from Beloit entered. It was not a KSHSAA sanctioned event and I agree that there would be better attendance if it were. In order to make that happen either the Cubs would have to win the world series or hell would have to freeze over! Actually, if we only recognize the existing state champions as "class champions" then invite the top 4 to a "individual state tournament" you could have a state champion. Invite the 16 regional champion teams (four from each class) the following week to a dual state tournament to crown a team state champion. You could do this all in February ending the season the same date you do now.

Western Kansas administrators have more control by virtue of the greater number of "small" schools voting for KSHSAA rules and policies. Many of the policies are antequated and outdated but remain in place because of the old guard's control.

I think that votes should be determined by enrollment so larger schools would have more say or seperate policies from smaller schools. I think the process to change rules should be much easier to navigate and that the barriers to change need to be eliminated. I think more freedom to allow schools, individuals, coaches, and parents make their choices should be norm instead of a what I cosider to be a a basic dictatorship we have in place today.

I never suggested that we only have two schools, my suggestion was to have magnet practice facilities for the "off season" and I gave a couple of examples, but I have, more than once, suggested that we consolidate schools and governments in western Kansas because the way they are set up today is a huge waste of tax dollars.

How would we do this? You have to open your mind and analyze the facts. You have to let go of "emotional decisions". If your four year high school has an enrollment less than 80 students then it needs to be closed and combined with a neighboring school. Take a look at Rooks County. Does it need three high schools? All three have shrinking enrollment but they continue to operate all three seperately. Does this make sense to you? Combining would eliminate a massive number of administrations, school boards, facilities, etc that are basically a black hole for tax dollars today. The same could be said for county governments. Do we need 105 counties in Kansas? I say NO WAY! Maybe 65. How much money do we waste on building maintenance and inefficient systems to sustain the present setup?

We cannot continue to make emotional decisions. There are better ways but it means letting go of the way we have grown comfortable with and embracing change.

Will - I like your ideas on the 4 state winners meeting and then a dual meet. Sounds like a win win situation. It would still give each class a state champion, but also determine an idividual grand state champion. I believe that all state champions would welcome the opportunity to see how they would fare against each class. The dual tournament would validate a true grand state team champion

Are we talking just last year?, or of all time, because I have been in Beloit's wrestling room and they have all the state placer wrestlers of every year painted on the wall, and I can count about 5-6 times when Beloit has had around that many in the finals, pretty amazing.

And as for the statement about western KS dominance gone, this may be the case for 4a, 5a, and 6a, but as for 321a, the dominance in still intact. Last year the top 4 teams at state came out of western KS, along with the year before that I believe. And going back 5 years all state champion teams came out of western ks, havn't checked back any further than that.

Just my two cents - ty

yes i was talking about last year. Yep there has been some pretty great teams over the years.

In 95 Ark City had 8 in the semi-finals 7 of which made the finals and 5 state champs. Lone semi final loser went on to take 3rd.

Dagwood sounds like Ark City was real good that year.