This has to change! At Holton, there were NINE matches forfeited because of this rule. That is a comedy. Are we protecting our kids or are we hurting our sport? Our wrestlers can go live in practice six days a week for an hour a day, but can't wrestle 36 minutes on a Saturday over a period of 8 or 9 hours?

At the Eureka tournament MULTIPLE matches were given up to this ruling.
Which I also find ridiculous.

Then the tournament should invite less teams or change to a two day format. The individuals running tournaments know the rules and should plan accordingly. This is truly a disservice to our wrestlers.

I was going to start a thread on this but someone beat me to it. I too think our match limit needs to be changed, but my concern is a little different although related. We had a wrestler reach his 5 match limit as had his opponent for his consolation finals match. Both reported for a flip, and the points were to be split. Here is my problem...in other tournaments I have coached at, the winner of the flip took home the medal that day, both wrestlers were put on the stand and another medal was sent to the loser of the flip later. This weekend, the winner of the flip got the medal, and got on the stand, and the loser received no medal, obviously did not get on the stand and was listed as a default loser on the official results (including a 3-3 record). I could understand this outcome if 1 wrestler had a match available to wrestle, but in this case both wrestlers had reached their limit. Am I wrong or does this outcome (no medal, no stand, and a default loss) seem a bit much for the flip of a disc?
Just a side note...this is no reflection on the staff at Eureka, they just did what they thought they were supposed to do. They ran an excellent tournament and we appreciate everything they do!

Agree with all above. Just to put it in context, I attended an open kids tournament this past weekend. They ran a split format start based on age groups. They started the second session at 1:45 p.m and I was out of there by around 4:00 p.m. My 12 year old wrestled 5 matches in that period of time. Which for a parent is a good as it gets. A lot of mat time in a shorter period of time. No reason why a high school wrestler, the majority of which are in excellent condition could not compete in 6 matches in the 8 or 9 hours it takes a Saturday for a High School event.

Yes, where is the devil in the details of a 5 match limit on our Kansas High School Wrestling athletes?

Having to flip a coin rather than wrestle is plain pathetic. What is the true reasoning/rationale when some of these tournaments can go from 0900-1700?

John, I had the same question on the splitting of points. I thought at least the points should have been split, it wouldn't have made that much of a difference but still. I don't know about you, but I am not putting that loss on the record. It shouldn't count.

Overall, I think we need to open this up for just one more match. I think with the smaller schools you need to have several teams to fill the brackets up, which is why we need to use the 16-man bracket without making it a 2-day event, adding expense, and points to the schedule, taking kids out of class, etc...

The problem is not ours, it is a national rule that we don't have a voice with. I know the coaches have brought this up for many years but haven't heard much on it.

It makes no sense with it being a National Federation rule. We dont have a casting vote anyway since we dont abide by the weigh in policy. The state of Kansas can choose to change it with no more penalty than we have sanctioned against us already It can be changed, it just wont be changed. This is a matter for the KSHSAA and every year at the state tournament coaches meeting, this is discussed. It is presented to KSHSAA, to my understanding, and nothing gets done about it.

I don't know what the answer is but if the match limit is raised to lets say 6 per day, the host tournaments will simply add a couple more teams to the tournament and we will hear the same complaints because it's not 7 matches per day.

You don't need 7 matches to run a 16-man bracket in 1 day (unless a kid is in a pigtail and makes it to the 5th or 3rd place match)

John,

I believe the ruling is (although I can't seem to find it right now) that if one of the wrestlers is still eligible to compete his team would get the points. The match did not exist, so their is not record for either wrestler. If both are in the same situation of 5 matches, then the points are split. It would be up to the home administration how they handle the medals.

I also agree, we should remove that rule or at least give them the 6th match so you could complete a 16 team tourny in one day.

I know I had a team lose a tournament in this situation a few years back and I was furious about the scoring until they showed me the rule. Maybe it has been changed and if so hopefully Mr. Salyer will find it for me. I really thought he would have the ruling by now. Rick knows this rule book better than anyone I know and can find the stuff instantly.

Come on, tell me if I'm wrong.

Terry Alley
Andover Central High School

i fully agree with changing the rule

last year i was about to wrestle for third but got DQed because of this rule and lost a match to a kid i pinned in 48 seconds the next week at regionals....terrible rule

How long is a football game? How long is a basketball game? Five matches is, at most, 42.5 minutes in a whole day. The five match limit is bad for our sport. Tournaments have to overbook in order to fill brackets because of the many, many open varsity slots on teams today. In addition, as many of you have stated in arguements on this forum, schools don't have the funds for two day tournaments so let them get seven matches in a day. Economically it is a better deal for the traveling teams. The rule is out of date and doens't make sense. I see many, many wrestlers compete in up to 10 matches in one day at Fargo. Those are ten high quality matches! The whole limit and competition points system needs to be overhauled. Don't even get on here and say "You can get 70 plus matches with the Kansas point system." That is total BS! We need points for weekends and points for weekdays to bring back the single dual, weekday night events that crowds and parents love. The point system, as it stands today, is killing duals. Both of these items should be at the top of the KWCA wish list, right behind unchaining coaches so that they are allowed to coach in March, April, and May. That should be NUMBER ONE.

Another thing that is killing duals is the lack of a dual state tournament. Why worry about having a competitive dual team when you have nothing to show for it at the end of the year? Also many teams can't fill out rosters so using competition points on opens are pointless so you might as well wrestle at tournaments instead.

Montana just had their inaugural Dual state tournament for their large schools (AA in MT, equivalent to 6A in KS). They used a pool system. I think it would be great to see a dual state championship.

I think this has been brought up to KSHSAA previously: http://usawks.com/KWCA/dual_state_proposal.htm

It still needs looked into and doesn't even have to conflict with the previous schedule because they could have it during the 1st week of March. If we had to have any tournament added to the schedule other than a Grand State it should be this because it could be an instant crowd draw because dual scoring is much easier to understand and fans seem to enjoy following there teams in legions.

And on another note why can't we kill the match limit with our varsity athletes? Why do we have to have a number on the amount of matches they wrestle during the season prior to Regionals?