To All~

I feel so strongly about this that I feel I need to post this on the regular forum as well as the Upcoming Tournament forum. This was in response to a complaint that we received from a concerned parent/coach about wrestlers who have placed in an open tournament, but have registered for our tournament. Please read the following:

[Marc28,

We, as do many other clubs, leave it to the coaches and parents to have the integrity to follow the instructions listed on the flyer. Unfortunately, this does not always happen. If you are aware of an entrant who has placed in an open tournament, I would ask that you or anyone else bring it to our attention so we can contact the people/club directly. Our flyer does state: first and second year wrestlers who have not placed in an open tournament. (This does not include first and second year wrestlers who have wrestled in an open tournament and have not placed!) I do not have the ability to check every open tournament against the list of entrants, we are depending on people to follow the rules.

Please feel free to PM me the wrestlers in question so I may contact their coach.

Thank you,
_________________________
Ginny Wagh
KCWC in Maryland


If you are one of those parents/coaches who have "mis-understood" our flyer, please correct the mistake by contacting me.

Thank you,

but is there or is there not a lot of novice kid's who have placed in an open tournament, just for the simple fact is there might have only been 4 kids in the bracket, and maybe he or she took last, but they still would have placed in an open tournament.

heck even if's a 5 man round robin it only takes 1 win to place in that open tournament. so just because a true novice kid took fourth in an open tournament, in a 4 man bracket does that mean that they are not novice. just wondering for my own info thanks.

This topic is debated every year. I don't think Ginny is by any means trying to seclude kids that place by default.

HOWEVER, I think many of us who run novice tournaments do it so that new wrestlers have a chance to experience wrestling at their level before being exposed to open wrestling. It is not meant to be a means for easy wins for experienced wrestlers. Too often that is how novice tournaments are or at least appear to be used by some.

Common sense is a big factor and one that I think the adults in these situations sometimes lack or ignore. We held our novice tourney 2 weeks ago and there was a lot of novice wrestling. It made me smile to give those kids the opportunity and most were not ready for open competition.

Then there were the moments that a wrestler did a takedown move into a pinning combination in about 10 seconds or the wrestler that put a kid into a tilt that was pretty impressive by open standards. These wrestlers should probably start seeking more open type settings.

Now in saying that, do I know for sure that the wrestlers mentioned above didn't do what they did by "accident"? No, I don't but their coaches for sure and their parents maybe would know and should select future tournaments accordingly.

Novice should be a stepping stone preparing kids for open tournaments. Every child is different. Some may never even start novice, some may move to open after just a couple of tournaments, some kids may need the full two years given and yes, some probably need more time than that, but the goal should be to prepare the wrestler for the next level, not bask in the easy wins a wrestler can get against unexperienced competition.

If a wrestler can win or place consistently (not just by default)at open tournaments, IMO that wrestler has outgrown novice and is at the next level. It does not serve well that wrestler OR the novice competition to leave he/she down at the novice level.

Randy's quote I believe applies here in many ways....prepare the wrestler, not the path.......

Thank you Rieschicks Mom and you are right, I don't want to exclude any novice wrestler, as long as he/she is truly novice. It is the coach's responsibility to determine this, parents should listen to them. I believe what Marc28 is concerned about are the kids who have placed in more than one open tournament, not just placing due to being in a four man round robin. Yes, I know there are wrestlers out there who are truly novice kids and have only wrestled in open tournaments because their coaches/parents have registered them before they were ready. And I am willing to talk to those coaches/parents about entering our tournament, but be prepared, if your wrestler has placed, there is a possibility that parents/coaches can and will challenge their entry, and if it is proven that they have placed (and not by default), especially more than once, I will eliminate them from the tournament. This tournament is for our wrestlers to learn to wrestle and get mat time! That is why we had out medals to everyone who participates, not just the first four placers. I am sorry if I offend anyone, but I am very passionate about this.

Will chewing tobacco be allowed at your tournament? lol

Not if the referee sees it and enforces the rule!!!

You knew I would respond... :-)

Jeff

Link to 2009 USA Wrestling Rule Book:

http://www.themat.com/forms/Rulebook.pdf

National Federation High School Rules:

http://www.nfhs.org/web/2006/10/200607_nfhs_wrestling_rules_int.aspx

This is in the rules:

In no instance shall alcohol be consumed or tobacco products be used in the presence of an athlete.


What happens when a club director, USAWKS representative, coach, teacher, anyone affiliated with the club has a beer or a cigar - at a wedding reception at a city civic center and or public school, funeral, church picnic, State Fair, K-State Football Game, KU Basketball Tailgate, Chiefs Game, and they are in the presence of one of their athletes and/or children - is that in violation of the rules. It would be IMO. Have you and/or anyone affiliated with your club ever done any of these? Do not come to my house I am staying home.

I guess that explains the screename 'smokeycabin'?

Wrong guess sportsfan02!

Dogs name is smokey.
I have a cabin in Northern Wisconsin and I am not telling you or anyone what lake it is near or where the good deer hunting spots are.

Sean McCarthy

Honestly I think some of these rules should be discussed at district, state, and or coaches meetings and not on the forum where little eyes are being influenced positively and/or negatively.

Sean,

"I would hate to influence any kid positively!"


You wont hear me say that.


Jeff

Please everyone answer the statement below yes or no. Let’s be honest. We are trying to set a good example.


In no instance shall alcohol be consumed or tobacco products be used in the presence of an athlete.

Answer YES if you had alcohol or tobacco in the presence of an athlete.
Answer NO if you never had alcohol or tobacco in the presence of an athlete.

If you answered YES to this statement was it more than 2 times?
If you answered YES to this statement was it more than 3 times?

It does not state whether or not the athlete is your own child. It doesn’t even say how old the athlete is – it could have been in college.


Enough said.

But to answer your questions. no, no, no, no, no, no, I try to sit on first row when possible, or sit or kneel on edge of mat when a competitor is coming up, and no.

Jeff


This is in the rules:

In no instance shall alcohol be consumed or tobacco products be used in the presence of an athlete.


What happens when a coach, club director, teacher, anyone affiliated with the club has a beer or a cigar - at a wedding reception at a city civic center and or public school, funeral, church picnic, old shawnee days, Lenexa BBQ, State Fair, and they are in the presence of one of their athletes and/or children - is that in violation of the rules. It would be IMO. Have you and/or anyone affiliated with your club ever done any of these?

wrong thread

wrong thread

Try taking a walk thru the hotels in Topeka the weekend at State, the hotels the weekend of TOC & you will get your answer. Lots of rule breakers out there. Keep in mind that we have adopted the High School rules where it's not as likely the athletes are hanging out with the coaches (parents) after competition as it is in kids wrestling. It's not as cool as a teenager.

i deleted all threads that i have posted, ginny posted this thread talking about entries into there tournament. and we turned this into our thread about tobbaco again. sorry ginny.

I can read it says "In no instance"

In no instance shall alcohol be consumed or tobacco products be used in the presence of an athlete.

It does not say in season out of season. A Superbowl party is during wrestling season. The Chiefs may not play as long as the Super Bowl teams - but part of their season is during wrestling season. K-State and KU football played in a bowl game during the season. The basketball games are for sure during the wrestling year(unfortunately). Ginny's post had to do with one of the many rules. "Following the Rules"

"I hope I am at the right meeting...
Oh well, um, Hello everyone! My name is BLT, and I am a rule breaker. I was at dinner last week, after a tournament, with my family and the family of another coach and their wrestler and I had an adult beverage. I am just trying to not break rules and take it one tournament at a time. Thanks for listening!"

LOL
I think this thread has taken a turn away from where it was intended! The horse is dead! Let's move on!

HELLO BLT