That is basically the attitude of most people today. It doesn't matter what is good or best for your school district, community or neighbors. To heck with them, they can fend for themselves, and if they can't too bad for them.

Whats good or best for my school district? Please leave the community & neighbors out of it drama queen. I'm concerned about whats best for my son's over whats best for the school district. The school district is there to serve us, your post has it the other way around. Please get it right.

At Goddard we do not have to pay for our practice room. If you have seen it you would understand why. Not that it is bad, just a little small. We allow anyone from any location to join our club. We are trying to make Kansas wrestling better, not just Goddard Wrestling. We have had this open enrolment since the club was started. We do have Junior High kids on our club. We would like for them to wrestle for the School but for some of them that are very completive, that would mean to miss Tulsa and the Classic. We believe that the parents/kids will make the right decision on which club to attend and weather to wrestle for the school or not. Our School board has stayed out of the decision making for us.

Sportfan02-I am curious what your take would be on this...

Say your son is the 152lb HS state champ from last year. He is fired up and ready to wrestle this year at 160. The coach finds out after looking at this years team that there is one other kid who is not as good at 160 and nobody at 171. He asks your son for the good of the team to wrestle 171 because he could handle it better. This would greatly reduce your sons chances of repeating as state champ but help the team. Would you object?

My take so you know, is that your kid in this example would have earned his spot at 160 since he can beat the other kid. He would clearly help the team if he wins another state championship there. Asking him to hurt himself for the good of the team works when there are no individual winners. (like football or basketball), but in wrestling they should help the team but not at the risk of hurting themselves. I would say the kid would help his team more at 160. A kid also can help the team by his leadership, work ecthic and attitude, all of which don't hurt his individual chances.

That is my challenge is anytime kids/families want to do anything for themselves, like your exception to Cavanaugh's post, it's considered not for the team. We took my son to Missouri to wrestle all during kids club. We were told we were selfish and not looking out for the team. Now that he is in HS when it's actually a partial team sport, he helps the team quite a bit. He is a positive influence, and works hard, but he is doing his best every day to improve as an individual as that helps the team. He also works all the time with the other kids on his team to help them get better.

Let me know your thoughts,

Sure you are, everyone is. But at the same time, everyone today forgets that being a team member can at times require sacrifice. Everyone wants to be a member of a team right up to that point!

No and I've seen it done on several if not many occasions. Maybe not to the exact scenario you lay out but all the same.


Depends on the situation of the team. In some cases what you say may be true but in others that same kid just placing and allowing another kid to place might be of a bigger help.


I know it's difficult for people who have never been around a successful team to understand what is expected from each individual, in what is somewhat an individual sport. But as I think Beeson and others will attest, it is ALL about the team and less about individual accomplishments at that level. The coaches I know and respect (which is about all of them), talk about the team first and foremost.

FYI-I have been around a some very successful teams. But I appreciate your input and opinions. Mine vary some what but to each his own.

Chris Hernandez did just this in 1990. He was State Champion at 152, in 1989. In 1990 he weighed about 165. He wrestled 171 and won state. The wrestler who would have been behind him on the team placed 2nd at 160. The next year Chris won State at 160. Now, not all wrestlers could have done this but Chris could and did, helping the team considerably.

I'm a huge fan of Team and Specifically Ark City Wrestling. Everybody has to do what they think is best for their situation. Back in the late 80's and through the 90's there was no better practice room than the Ark City practice room, so we didn't have to go looking for better practice partners. That made it an easy decision.

I do take Jake to other practice rooms, but not when Ark City is practicing. And when the time comes he will wrestle for the Middle School. I'm not saying this is right or wrong but what we will do to support Ark City wrestling.

I agree this is prob a big city problem. A bunch of 1A & 2A schools do not have wrestling and some 3A are also missing out as well. If you live in a rural area and want to wrestle there is but little choice but to wrestle the best program nearest you. If they had the policy of not allowing kids from out of school district not wrestle then it would huge barrier to the sport.

In the city it might be considered recruiting, but there are a many valid reasons for not wanting to wrestle with the program in your district. Personality conflicts, financial, better or more focused programs etc.. This seems like a backwards policy, but then again the devil is in the details.

If I had a high school buddy coaching a team and it meant just driving 5 more min to take my kid there then I would def go with that program. Not with people I didn't know and had no history with the program. Just common sense, besides it takes just a minute to change high schools anymore especially in big cities.

Some very valid points are being made regarding this subject, but I believe Eagle One would also appreciate additional input
from other clubs/coaches regarding his original question(s)as well...

Clubs seem to fall into one, of two, ways of thinking. First you have the coaches who believe “THE CLUB” is the most important thing. These coaches are protective of their wrestlers and don’t want them seeking outside help. They shun outsiders from their wrestling room.

On the other hand you have the coaches who are wrestler orientated, these coaches want all wrestlers to succeed regardless of where the kid lives or what High school he will be attending. These coaches understand when a kid needs to seek out better wrestling partners .

Not letting a kid wrestle for a club because he lives out of district or won’t be attending the right High school is short-sighted and selfish. Are we really that competitive ,that we would deny kids the opportunity to be the best they can be, so we can have a better High school wrestling team!
Elevating all wrestlers should be the goal.

And if you create more clubs in neighboring communities it creates more opportunities for wrestlers! I've seen it happen.

I am short sighted and selfish...are you serious? I want what is best for Ark City, I want us to be the best. If you don't want what is best for your school and community, you are in denial, or don't know what school pride and honor are.

In my opinion those clubs that let anyone join are on an ego trip to see how many individual state champs the Coach can make, or recruit. You don't care about your school or Kansas wrestling. You care about people saying, "wow thats a good coach." The sad thing is, those people are not good coaches, they are good at stroking dad's ego to get his kid to join or switch clubs.

Chad,

I think you are a great guy, I respect you as a coach and a general good guy, and usually enjoy your posts, but the situation in Ark City does not match ours in Wichita and probably other metro areas. Sweeping generalities are usually wrong; I think yours are here.

In far west Wichita alone there are 4 high school choices, Maize, Goddard, Northwest, and Bishop Carroll. Add other nearby towns and you have many, many school districts in a very small area. People live, move, play, and cris-cross between those school districts all the time.

For example, I coach one son in baseball. I have kids from all over the metro area: Maize, Goddard, Haysville, Andover, and Valley Center. I coach my other son in football. I have kids from Goddard, Maize, Wichita Northwest, and even Kingman, KS.

Since my boys have been wrestling, we have lived in Maize and Goddard districts and our children attended/will attend Bishop Carroll. Not all of us have just one school.

Your opinion on this subject, and many others for that matter, are skewed due to your extra-ordinary talents and accomplishments. Not every coach is a Chad Beeson. Not every district has a Chad Beeson. Not every wrestler is lucky enough to move to a district that has a coach or program that fits that particular wrestler and where he can live from cradle to graduation, wearing the same school colors the entire time.

Here's a mental exercise. Pretend as though you moved to Wichita, Topeka, or Kansas City. Throw a dart at a metro map and you are stuck with the result. Pretend you could not coach at all, not even at home. You are telling us that you would blindly send your 8 year old son to a team that was not a good match, all just for high school pride? Even if there was a perfect fit just down the road in another school district? If so, I guess you win the argument.

We have options here in Wichita and exercising those options does not mean clubs, coaches, or dads are doing something wrong.

Point taken. Hossus said it best, this is a big city problem. I'm glad I don't have this problem and empathize with those of you who do. I just took it wrong when told I was "short sighted and selfish." It didn't help I was lumped into a group of wrestling coaches that apparently are wrong. I still don't understand how you can wrestle for one club and then move to another High School, I personally just couldn't do it.

I wish everyone luck in the decisions they are making for their children.

You know most of the kids wrestling today will not wrestle in college and very few will make a living from it. I have found the best thing my kid has gotten out of wrestling is the friends he has made. Most of those friends are past and current practice partners from open rooms/clubs. Now on facebook, my son has friends from all over the state thru wrestling. He is willing to ride 30 minutes to Bonner for open gym just to see Coach Seaton and I do not think Jerry even has an ego and I know he does not read this forum. At least I know he does not care what any of us think, he just loves wrestling. As our kids get older we see the team concept actually goes above high school and to Team Kansas. Wrestling on the Kansas teams Cokely has put together for the Park Hill and Middle School duals and later the School Boy duals have been some of my kids greatest joys. He is with his friends.

Mr. Johnson I think Jerry Seaton is the perfect example of a wrestler orientated coach. He has helped countless wrestlers that have ended up wrestling against Bonner High School yet I would never ,never accuse him, or any of the coaches like him, of not having school pride ,or honor.

Originally this post asked three questioins. Do clubs have to pay for High School rooms? Previously Maize hasn't but some issues have come up. Do middle school kids have to wrestle during the season? Do kids have to be from the district?

From a School point of view I can see why they want kids in the District. I am sure the High School coach doesn't like the fact that Bishop Carroll gets alot of their wrestlers. Bishop Carroll has a great kids program, why not use it. Especially if you are going to be wrestling there in High School.

Because the kids are not from the District, and will not be wrestling there in High School, they do not support the middle school team. They want to stay in kids.

I'm sure that the school would not be even considering charging, if they would be getting the benefits of the feeder program. With Bishop Carroll getting some of the benefits also, the school system feels slighted.

After thinking about some of the points that Murph brought up, at first I was empathetic. CHOICE of High Schools? There should be no CHOICE, wrestle in your District. I'm sure lots of kids would love to wrestle for those programs. If you live in Goddard, wrestle for Goddard, High School and Club. They have a top notch program in both. If you live in Maize, wrestle for Maize, again the kids program and High School are top notch. If your going to wrestle for Bishop Carroll, wrestle for the kids club there as well, I have always been impressed with them.

The kids club should be a partner with the High School. Talk to your High School coach, find out what the club can do to help him. Ask him what he wants taught. Have the kids know who he is and respect him, so they will want to wrestle for him in the future.

Great post. Interesting takes on the subject. I particularly admire "Murph's" take on the issue - Kudos.

One of my sons also wrestled in the greater Wichita area in the kids program some time ago.

We started out with one particular club - which had great coaches and excellent facilities - but with very limited practice "partners", for my son (a perceived, necessary ingredient to better yourself as a wrestler)at my son's weight. We changed clubs.

While the coach may (well, did)resent the move, this move proved to be the absolutely "right" move.

We transferred clubs and affilliated with the Maize kids program, which, at the time had no restrictions for "district", "attendance at Maize High School", etc.... It was a great move, their attitudt was: You want to wrestle, come check us out.

At that point in time, Maize was fortunate to have some of the best kid's wrestlers from west Wichita and beyond(the "Brawlers" were just getting underway). the Maize experience, was an invaluable experience!

While in kids wrestling, my son would periodically visit other kids wrestling venues to take advantage of "match-ups" with other steller wrestlers (in my son's weight class) from other kids wrestling clubs in the area.

Never a problem. I always sensed a genuine appreciation for the interest and willingness to show up and provide another body for "that program's" wrestlers. "Everyone" benefitted!

There was no artificial division, while participating in the "new" kid's wrestling program. My son was expected to respect and follow "their" rules, and he always came away from that experience with a very positive mind-set, and, I'd hasten to add, his injection into this new environment probably served as a pretty significant motivator to both my son and his opponents at the time.

Too say that my son and his new challengers did not invest a little "extra" effort into their match-ups, would not be true, as their "match-up's" were (not probably)the focus of the evening, and their respective pride and reputations served to give their little "work-out" some significant meaning. It was great.

I may be mistaken, but I was of the opinion, that any wrestler, from any kid's program, could occassionally visit another program and be welcomed and accepted (at least, in Western Sedgwick County, Kansas)

I'm extremely disappointed to hear of Eagle One's comments. I think alot of Bryce Hughbanks. This parochial attitude which is now infecting/poisoning, the kid's programs is not to my liking,and will not serve the interests of the greater Wichita Wrestling area.

Let's not go there. Whether it's the coach, the level of competition, the availability of practice schedules, or whatever, let's leave that to the parent's, and not artifically create barriers ...

Eagle One,

I don't have a lot of answers but I can tell you what we do. It seems to work out ok for us and the school districts around us...

1. We don't have to pay for the rooms. Immaculata, Lansing and Leavenworth schools give us outstanding support.

2. Our middle schoolers have a very short season (Nov-middle Dec). They wrestle middle school and then come out for the club. This hasn't been a big issue so far. We encourage the kids to wrestle middle school because it supports their respective schools. I know this wouldn't work for all clubs because the middle school season is different.

3. We try and work very closely with the high school coaches in our area to ensure we are teaching the basics and technique that they want to build on in the future.

4. We promote the team concept but we have an open room. We encourage kids to come in the room anytime and from anywhere. The only requirement is that they have a USAW card (insurance purposes).

5. We are fortunate that we have some very good opportunities for our kids outside the club; Erik Akin, Travis Phippin, Zach Roberson from the East Kansas Club; Tony Purler, etc. We encourage our kids to go out and experience what they have to offer. We are fortunate in that they all are focused on helping kids improve. In fact, I encourage and challenge our older kids (high school) to get out and learn from these guys. Then as leaders of our club, come back and help coach/teach the younger wrestlers. Eric, Travis, and Zach our great about this. We also offer their guys the opportunity to train with us.

6. We have had kids that have practiced primarily in Missouri but wrestle with our club because they live in KS. This has been great for us because they bring back additional technique and training tips without shortchanging their individual desires and goals. They also make the effort to come to our practices when they don't conflict and help with the club.

BLUF: I think the team concept is important to teach our wrestlers but it is just as important to build in flexibility to allow individuals to achieve their goals. I think in a kids program both can be achieved if the adults can get along and focus on what is best for the kids (both from a team concept and an individual concept).

We have also found that by having 1 kids club that supports multiple schools, it actually helps the middles school and high school coaches. They can actually be in the room helping our younger kids or working with kids from another school. We can also do things as a club (like take kids to camps) because we don't have a lot of the same restrictions as a high school coach. This in the long run helps the high school programs.

Shawn Budke
Leavenworth County Spartans