they usually go from the placings at the roller tournamets. i mentioned earlier that an OK kid is ranked and seeded, when he has never beat one of our kids. matter of fact i've only seen him beat one KS kid, and i doubt that would happen twice. biggest thing to remember that seeds don't mean places, if you have to wrestle from the back side, so be it. let them have their seeds, then take their medals, that's how we roll.