Figure-4 around head & arm pressure on neck, and straight arm back of elbow ??

In the UFC it is called the triangle - in this case it was a backwords UFC triangle. My question in USA Kansas or any USA state kids wrestling, highschool or college is it illegal, legal, potentially dangerous, stalemate, stalling -

My thought was that it is illegal, if not that - it was definitely potentially dangerous and should have been stopped
because of pressure on the neck and elbow with straight arm as the kids rolled 15 to 20 seconds. The officials job is the safety of the kids first. The match was wrestled very hard and great job by both kids. I believe the opponent applied the hold unintentionally in a scramble when our wrestler was coming out the back door. The boy held the arm and locked the legs (or applied the figure-4) around the head and arm hoping for stalemate it never occured. At this point I brought it to the attention of the ref as the match continued - he shrugged me off and told me it was OK and legal. The opponent began moving his hips UFC triangle style applying pressure to neck and straight arm elbow - at minimum potentially dangerous. Anybody no the rule? I know if ANY referee let me put him in this hold I would make you tap out, you would pass out or I would dislocate your elbow or worse the neck could have potentially dangerous problems. I just want to know the RULE for sure. My rule number 1 - is officials job is safety of the kids. Points or no points, win or loss, that does not matter. As I said earlier both kids are fine kids and wrestled their tails off. The move started as a drapping head scissors with arm in (at that point - I would have called stalemate myself). The move progressed to the backwards figure-4 UFC triangle with pressure. At that point for sure I would have called it illegal or 100% potentially dangerous. I have to get ready for a novice tournament this morning - so I am done with this topic. But I will be checking with other officials. Maybe I can demonstrate the hold on an official today at the coaches meeting.

photos of figue-4

http://matref0.tripod.com/Articles/figurefou.pdf

I think I found my answer.

Go to page 21 of the 2009/10 NFHS Wrestling Rules. The last line in the text below “A draping figure 4 on the body is illegal” The picture B shows the arm and the head inside the legs. It does not matter what direction the wrestlers head is it still is a draping situation and the figure-4 is illegal. That is how I read it.

NFHS website link:

http://www.nmact.org/files/Wrestling_Rules_PowerPoint_2009.pdf




National Federation of State
High School Associations

_Legalities of the Scissors, Draping Scissors and Figure 4 (POE)
The straight body scissors is a legal hold. If excessive pressure is applied, it can become
dangerous and cause injury. The straight body scissors is a legal hold when it is used to
simply control the opponent, but when it is used with excessive force it becomes a
submission hold and is illegal at that point. Because of the possible dangers, referees need
to watch this hold closely and stop it prior to the situation becoming illegal and possibly
causing injury. The straight head scissors (even though an arm is included ) is illegal (A). A
draping head scissors is legal (B). It can be defined as one that includes the head but also
extends below the shoulder or under the armpit. It is considered legal because it does not
apply pressure on the head or neck.
The figure 4 is illegal if applied around the body or both legs. It is a technical violation if
applied on the head from the neutral position with or without the arm included (C). It is legal
on the head from both the offensive and defensive positions. The figure 4 is also legal on
one leg. The referee must be aware of the overscissors in this situation and not allow
pressure against the joint which would make the hold illegal. A draping figure 4 on the body
is illegal.

safety first! restart. potentially dangerous. saw a similar situation at districts last year. referee awarded 1 point for illegal hold. coach protested that it should be stopped, but no point awarded. it clearly shows here that a figure 4, in neutral position is a technical violation.

We ran into this situation with my older wrestler as a youth he had the kid in a headlock the ref was counting for a pin and the kid takes his legs and puts it around his neck and flings him at the bottom of the wrestler's feet---wasn't a good picture because the ref didn't see it --- he just saw our kid flying to the end of the boys feet. Ultimately since he didn't see it he couldn't call it....son was ahead and won by injury default.....if I recall.

The figure 4 ( in my impresion ) is legal while applying a pinning combination, such as a chicken wing or what we call threadibg the needle. once the opponents back is exposed we apply the figure 4. It isolates the head and controls the shoulders. We also use this in a spladle to control one leg. You must be careful in some situations to make sure your foot remains in the knuckle ( back of the knee) so it does not become scissors on the head. I have also ran into refs who don't call the figure 4 in the same situation as your talking about and I had to get the head ref to straighten it out. You cannot apply the figure 4 when you are being taken down or in a neutral position ( alot of boys do this on accident, out of reaction) These are the situations we see the Fig 4 the most. Hope it helps.

Smokey...I think you have the answer...it can be all of those things under the rule depending upon the situation. It's legal, except in the neutral position and its a technical violation there and you can let the action continue to see the takedown is complete. If the hold results in a choke or blood flow issue, it is PD or illegal depending on how it gets there.

It sometimes looks scarier than it is...and officials are usually pretty careful when a head/neck is involved, even when the hold is perfectly legal. And its a hold that will cause some kids to panic making it seem all the worse. A cautious official will be on top of it, monitoring the situation, and cautioning the wrestler to keep it legal.

It is a great pinning hold and one that my son used through high school with great success. I never saw a kid hurt with it.