I've always been under the impression NOVICE meant 1st or 2nd year wrestler...... If your son has been wrestling for 4 years i would think he is no longer NOVICE

i personally think they should do away with the novice division. im sure it has a place in the sport in some peoples eyes but it doesnt in mine. if you want your kid to be a wolf, throw him in with the wolves and he may take his lickings a bit but he will come out a wrestler if he sticks with it. novice wrestling was set up along time ago before there was a 6 and under division. and you had 5-6 yr old kids wrestling eight and under. now that there is a 6 and under division they should have deleted novice wrestling. you only get better wrestling good kids, why would you want to wrestle below average competition?

When my son started wrestling he was 7. I preached on Sundays. Being together at church was important. So his first tournament ever was at Emporia Tournament of Champions. Wow! He got clobbered hard. We went three weeks later to a smaller tournament near Lansing. He won a match! But he also go beat by a girl. He came off the mat and shook his head and said, "She was a lot tougher than my sisters!"

He practiced at Olathe South Kids Club and went to one more open in Ottawa. He won a match and went 1-2.



Here is the kicker: He didn't know anything about Novice Tournaments until several years later! He just liked wrestling.

He is a senior now, placed at state last year and making another run this year. He still likes wrestling.

This past Sunday the Kids Executive Council met and we have formed a committee to study the issue of Novice Wrestlers and Novice Tournaments. The committee will be made up of folks from all four districts. If you want to volunteer for this committee please contact you district director ASAP. If you have suggestions please forward them to the directors or my self.

My hope is the committee can bring suggestions to the Executive Council next fall.

Ned Price
Kansas Kids Executive Director

I feel some more state mandates for our invitationals coming.

Yeah, we should probably do away with Novice Division. While we are at it, why not cut the high school JV programs too. After all, you gotta wrestle varsity to get better. No sense in developing any young wrestlers. Let's get rid of all middle school sports too. If they can't hang with the high schoolers, so be it. No more Little League either.

yea right lets go ahead and get rid of novice and there goes derby's kansas novice championship tournament which is one of the best run and best tournaments for 1st year novice kids. and no i am not from derby.

keep novice but use it like it is meant for novice kids.

No one is saying cut "NOVICE" out all together. But parents and coaches have to relize potential. If your kid continues to place in every novice tourney, then they need to try an open; above a "D" wrestler to see how they can fair.

Too many parents don't want their kids to get beat by an advanced wrestler, but until you try it how will you know.

IMO
In larger clubs kids say "I took 1st." Now what bracket where you in in? Open or "C" "D" it makes a difference.

At some point all "novice" need to try an open, just to give them an idea of how tough this sport really is. If they fair well then it should not be an issue.

Novice tournaments are for kids that can't compete at the open level. I don't care if they have wrestled two years, or many more than that. My oldest son wrestled three years from 8-10. He won four matches (all in novice tournaments) in those three years. I asked him to give it one more year after his second, thinking since he would be at the older end of the U10 and wrestling in his third year, that he might finally have some success. He just didn't have a mean bone in his body, and we (I) figured out that wrestling just wasn't his sport. Some kids will put it together, the light will come on for them, and some will not. If I would have thrown him in with the sharks his third year, he probably wouldn't have finished the season. Novice has a place in this sport. It is not for the kids that are succeeding, it is for the kids that have to find out if the sport is for them.

By the way, I left something out. My second son should not have been wrestling novice in his third year. He had early success wrestling at six and seven. I am guilty of having him wrestle a third year of novice when he should have been wrestling open. My wife and I did not have the money to be traveling to two tournaments a weekend back in those days. I really thought (hoped) my oldest son could make it in the sport, so we (my wife and I) kept my second son in the novice tournaments. When novice was done that year, I entered my second son in three open tournaments and had him wrestle at Subs. He finished 5th at Subs, and has had a pretty good career since then. I guess what I am saying is, that if you (or your coaches) know anything about wrestling, you will know when your son/daughter is ready to wrestle open.

The guys yelling do away with novice,are not thinking.Some kids it takes longer to under stand how things work.It also matter how much they get help.Some people have lives that do not work around the mat.So in turn the kids do not get the same time spent on the mat as a coaches kid.

Any one that stands at mat side can see it all the time.8 year olds doing high school moves.

You need some where for the new kids to learn how to do the moves in real time.To put them strate in with the good kids is nuts.

One more alibi. My third son (if you are keeping track, that is three out of four), is wrestling his second year. I could have sworn that he was the second coming of his older (second son) brother. They are almost identical twins from eight years apart. They look alike, they are built alike, and at times they have the same stubborn attitude (from their mother). Unfortunately, at this point, he does not have a mean bone in his body either (much like our first son). He has not had a lot of success in novice tournaments at this point. If he wants to wrestle next year, he will be in his third year of wrestling novice (still U6). Again, the point I am making is, if your wrestler can't compete at the open level, then they should wrestle novice. If there is no novice, many of these kids will not make it past a couple of years.

every kid is different. maturity comes at different times, with that comes strength, aggression, work ethic, etc., all at different times.

the worst thing to do in anything, wrestling, school, swimming lessons, life, and so on, is to get too comfortable.

you have to CHALLENGE your kids, PUSH them to succeed some how. teach them that small victories are still victories. don't let them be afraid to lose, teach them how to take a loss, and to put in the work to change it.

small victories no matter how insignificant are still victories.
i he/she gets pinned every match, teach them to fight to stay off their back and to fight off their back. challenge them and if they don't get pinned, yet get beat 15-0, treat it like their state championship. let them realize their potential, and see that their hard work has paid off.

the biggest problem with novice tournaments/ divisions is parents want to PROTECT their young. they are trying to protect their psyche. the second biggest problem is the shear opportunity of novice tournaments, the number has probably tripled in the last 10 years. it used to be you found 2 or 3 every year to attend, now there is one every weekend.

When I started wrestling back in '73 at the age of eight, from my knowledge, there was no such thing as a novice tournament. I spent most of my first two years getting throttled (maybe 5-6 tournaments each year). My parents didn't push me into the sport (might have been an older brother that did), and they both worked so much I don't think they came to many of my tournaments when I was wrestling on the Kids' circuit. I managed to continue wrestling all the way through high school and had a decent career. Wrestling was a sport for me, but the reality is, I can't make it be a sport for all my kids (although I have tried).

There is a place for novice tournaments in wrestling. The biggest problem is kids wrestling novice that should be wrestling open. From a previous post by me last night, I admit being one of those parents/coaches that kept one of my sons in novice too long. The other two that have wrestled, well, they may not wrestle in an open tournament because they may not be the type of kids that have what it takes to be wrestlers. That is what I have come to understand. Wrestling is not for everyone, and if was easy, a lot more kids would be doing it.

No one wants to get rid of Novice, but it is being abused. In my opinion there should be no Novice in the 6U division. They are all Novice, there may be one or two kids that really know what is going on, but everyone else is Novice. I can understand Novice in 8U, 10U and 12U. Most kids that are going out for wrestling at the 14U division are doing it because they think they will do well, or they are pretty athletic. I'm not sure these kids need a Novice division either.

What we need is some guidelines to help coaches explain to the parents that, "little Johnny does not meet the criterea for a Novice anymore, it is time to wrestle in the open division." Parents that are trying to "protect their kids until they are ready" are not doing the kid any good. Parents that are out "Trophy Hunting" are not doing the kid or anybody else's kid any good. I think some guidlines would help Tournament Directors, coaches, and parents. I don't think that the State is wanting to rule with an iron fist, but make guidlines so that if it is being abused, someone can step in.

I think we can see here and from all past threads on this subject that none of us can agree on what the term novice means. I do not believe it involves the number of years wrestled but rather the abilities of the individual wrestler. Others would say that it only applies to a first or second year wrestler. The amount of variables makes it impossible to come up with a definition that will please all, and more importantly work for the kids who really need a novice division.
If I am correct in my thinking on being unable to come up with a workable definition then why would we have the state body mandate what the term novice means? We can see that the small sampling of members on this board (most of whom don't attend the meetings), can't agree, then how could a much larger group? If you don't like a particular club's definition of novice then simply do not attend their tournament.
The one thing we know for sure is, regardless of who comes up with a definition of novice, the state body or an individual club, it will always be abused by someone. So I say, keep the state out of the business of the individual club's invitationals as much as possible.

This debate has gone on for years and years. I do believe that the Novice tournamnets are abused to some degree. Why doesen't
Kansas USA adopt a rule such as 1st year only (experiance)
qualifies a novice? USA Card # sould be used to separate the 1st year wrestlers from the others. It's simple to me. If a 2nd year wrestler can't win they need to get better same as in llfe. Ultimatly, isen't that what you are wrestling for- life lessons and to be able to compete at the H.S. level?

Ok! so tell me this, this is my sons second year wrestling. He took to wrestling like fish in water. We went to the seneca missouri tournamet as our wvery first tournamemt. He placed second outta five. So what you are saying is that a kid that is just thatr determined as a first year wrestler that places at an open tournament, is automatically an open wrestler?

I do not agree with getting rid of novice. actually, i wish there were more novice tourneys. my director says once they start placing 1st in 1 or 2 tournaments, its time to keep them in open. But then you have kids who never win a match in 2 yrs. what do you do with that. novice is for 1st and 2nd year kids. i took 1 of my kids out. he got to the point where he just went out and took his loss. it didnt matter anymore. and i was tired of spending money on a kid who really didnt want to wrestle. he was just going through the motions. my other kid doesnt wrestle novice anymore. Cause not like a fish in water but its time to start stepping up. my next move for him is wrestling up from 10 and under to 12 and under. he will probably get throttled for awhile but he will be fine in the long run.

If I am tracking what you are saying, your son, in his second year, went to an open tournament and finished second out of five. There is not enough information on how well he competed in novice last year and what other results he has had this year in open or novice to determine whether your son should be wrestling open or novice. My guess is, and it is just a guess, that he should probably be wrestling open. The thing you should do is check with his coach(s) and ask for their input. They should have a pretty good idea where he should be wrestling.