dean70 i think that is what bothers me that any kid should have to wrestle some one that is 30 lbs heavier than they are. Cause if your son was 61 pounds they would never expect him to wrestle someone that weighs 90 pounds. It is the same difference in weight. So why is it ok that the big boys are excepted to do it every week.

i don't think it is a weight DISCRIMINATION thing. it's a COMPETITION thing.

i think everyone on here sees your point, but understand that if you are 10 years old and weigh 130lbs the law of averages is going to play against you. if you want to compete, you might have to COMPROMISE.

i haven't read a single post on here where someone thinks it's OK for big boys to wrestle up. BUT WE ALL KNOW THAT OUT OF NECESSITY, IF THEY WANT TO COMPETE, THEY WILL NEED TO BUMP UP.

little guys bump up too, ask around. it's been a few years but we had a 14u that weighed 75lbs- he never wrestled in a bracket less than 95lbs until subs.

But I've also been told to think of it by percent of body weight.
Its still not right but its also why they do it.
Take a kid at 60 pounds... does he wrestle people at 72 at practice. SURE so its the same thing as a 150 pounder wrestling a 180 pounder.

I never did understand all that % body fat stuff as it applies to the weight spread limits. The % body fat criteria to me just applied to how they figured out how to determine the individual weight classes in a division.

Maybe it's just me and my math, but it just appears the weight spread limit numbers are a blanket number or rule of thumb rather than using actual percentages or real math. 15-20lb max rule might work decently for the 2-5lb weight group spreads in the lower weight groups in the kids divisions but when you start getting 10-20lb spreads in the actual weight classes then it sorta turns into a joke. Those 15-20lb max numbers would double or triple at the very least if you followed the math.

It would be interesting to find out where these numbers for max weight limit differences comes from and how it is formulated to apply arbitrarily to a division as a whole. As it stands it is limiting and ill applied.

headup I know we have a 12 and under who wants to wrestle 64 only weighs 61. He has to wrestle up alot also.

the term HWT is a term that has been around since dirt. Back in the day, all upper weight divisions were termed HWT. Whether it was Jr High or High School. And yes, years and years ago our kids upper weight division was labeled as HWT.
We have since changed{many,many moons ago} to the actual weight classes as you see now. Every age division has the 3 upper weights as " Heavy Weight " Brackets. Thus as example, in 8& under the first class of Hwt starts at 95# and goes up 15# to 110# then to 125#. Then the 8&under weights stop there. And the top three weights in each age division do the same thing. Only difference is the weight spred per age division. 15# in 8, 20# in 10, 25# in 12, 30# in 14's and 35# in the new high school division.

Hope this clears things up a little. People are just used to lumping the upper kids into the "HWT" division. The top three in each age division are the "HWT" classes. Where people have to be careful is the fact that all of these weight divisions have exact weight limits on them, example: 125# in 8& under. a wrestler may only weigh 125 or below. we cannot create or fudge up and let an 8 & under kid weighing over 125 compete in the 8&under division. During invitationals he may bump up to 10 & under to compete but when qualifying series comes around, he must adhere to the weight limits in his own age divisions. Got this from a district rep. Found this very intresting because I did not know this. Not sure many people do. Most tournaments don't do this.

i think hossus knows a few things about that, right?

Lose weight or dont wrestle,use your head.

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that's not right.

Wow! what an attitude.

Another brilliant statement from someone who has no idea of the issues.

HEADSUP; Yup we know quite a bit about all that. I really don't think it is really a mystery either. Most meet director's do know the difference they just don't have a whole lot of options due to the current rules that are in place. Which is why I posted above about the weight spread limits being arbitrary. The twist and the obvious folly of this is that you can always wrestle up in weight, but never down in weight even in state series. If a 10U 120lb kid wanted to wrestle in the 10U 170lb group, nobody would argue the weight difference. Even though the rules would prohibit it. Just goes to show what mentality is out there against the bigger kids in general.

Well I know what the rules are. I also know wnat they should be. I have posted on here before only to get negative responses. there are alot of HWT issues in the state of KS. my son wrestled 8 and under for 2 years. now 10 and under. He cannot qualify for state. he is too big. what is up with that? i can wrestle him up to get mat time but when sub-districts come, he cant play!!!!!that is crazy. Beeson, I heard you were the new district 2 state rep. lets fix this for just a couple kids. thanks, Charles King/Wichita Aztecas

I fully intend to submit a proposal for a change in the by-laws this year which would allow any kid to wrestle up one age group at qualifiers and state.

Sportsfan
That will not fully resolve the issue. Pushing the max weight to 285 will not fully resolve the issue.
Someone is still not going to be happy or someone that falls outside the guideline.
I agree something is better then nothing but I also think there comes a time that if you want it bad enough that you have to take this matter into your own hands and do something about it on a personal level.
That's what we had to start doing 2 years ago.
Is it fair NO.
Is it right NO.
Does my sons love the sport enough to make changes and give the effort it takes to make one of these weight classes YES.
I am a fan of Dean and Hossus and know their kids personally.
But guys...
You got to do something for your kids cause the system just isn't going to.
You have been on here for TWO YEARS fighting the good fight. I just don't see the light at the end of the tunnel.

And I do see it as a form of discrimination cause they NEVER tell a kid he can't go to state cause he's too small even if he's outside the allowed weight varience. NEVER
But we tell these big guys no every year.
That's discrimination.

You lost me. How are my intentions going to effect anyone or anything? I'm not sure what more anyone would want or need?

there is a minimum in high school, enough with the discrimination. no one want to walk up and be handed a medal. sportsfan has the closest thing to a solution, AND i think BLT is on board. WRESTLE UP IN AGE. i know it's not perfect, but there has to be a ceiling, you can't go to 285, if you go every 10-15 pounds there won't be any competition. COMPROMISE has got to come from SOMEWHERE. come up with a better solution and i'm sure we would all listen.

until a better solution comes along, let agree on one thing, it's an IMPROVEMENT!!

OK, so bare with me...

I’m just saying that yes it will help some kids, yes it is an improvement, but it won’t solve the issue. Then it will be why can’t my kid wrestle kids of their own age and maturity level. I got to say that I agree.
I think that in terms of Heavy weight or even light weights (any weight outside of our allowed weight guideline, use the Rossville method of Block bracketing. When the entries for subs come in we look at the state as a whole. If there are 9 kids that are within the guide lines of weight variance then you create a weight bracket for them. I say nine cause that should be the bare minimum for a state bracket so no one just gets a medal. If there is not 9 then we refund their entry fee due to lack of competition. That way NO ONE can say we did not provide an opportunity for a kid of any weight to wrestle. I mean does it get anymore fair then that.
I understand there are some how do we order medals for subs for a class if we don’t know they exist. Well if they end up wrestling we give them to them at state because they will all be going anyway. I’m sure they are more interested in wrestling at state then having a sub district medal on that day.

I don’t know I’m just spit balling here but to me it is our due diligence to provide these kids the OPPORTUNITY to wrestle. And if that OPPORTUNITY does not exist then no one has anyone to blame, we did our best.

By the way,
I did not know there was a minimum in high school. What is that weight?


Also, sorry about the grammer and spelling, this was typed on my phone with no spell check! lol

that's another great solution. i'm sorry if i sound upset. it bothers me when all people want to do is complain, and fail to offer any better solution. the first page of this thread was frustrating. it seems like some people cannot be pleased. don't quote me, just off the top of my head i think the hs minimum is 90lbs to wrestler 103. you can only bump up 2 weight classes too. again not positive, but i believe you actually have to weigh above your certified class to do this. i.e. if i weighed 111 i could not bump from 112 to 125, again not positive on all details, but looking into it.

Well here is what I have a problem with is that the powers that be read this fourm everyday. We have been talking about this for over two years.
They hear what the people of this state are saying and yet we always SEEM to get very little done. That's why I was so excited about Chad Beeson being over D2. Do Chad and I see eye to eye on everything HECK NO but he listens to us and I feel that he addresses issues that people bring to him.
I've never sat in the state mtg {but I intend to} so I can not say with certain what goes on there but the impression I get is that there are all these rules to prohibit change.
If you want to talk at the meeting you have to submit a request by this date or If there is a change you would like to see then you have to send a letter by this date.
I know if it was open forum they would be there for days. But that also tells me that there is a lot of change needed.

Post an agenda of say four major issues two months out. Ok D2 look into what we can do to resolve weight class issue. We find three or four club presidents or other board members that want to be apart of this committee and we start asking questions. WE do the leg work. WE use this forum and any other means and then take the issue to the state mtg and say ok...
This is what we see is a problem.
This is what the majority of the people would like to see happen.
Here is two or three SUGGESTED plans to resolve this.
You look them over and people provide imput and if there is a need for change asked for by the people and a solution we make a change.

Ok
I'm climbing down off my stacks of soap boxes cause they are starting to wobble and I'm way to big to be up this high. lol

There is a need for change here OR AT LEAST LOOK INTO IT AND TELL US WHY WE DONT NEED A CHANGE..
Does it effect the majority of the kids wrestling NO.
But these kids pay their dues with cash as well as sweat and blood.
We accept their sign up fees and entry fees.
So that means they deserve the OPPORTUNITY to wrestle at state.