I think we should investigate a 48, 64, 128 split. We should only include schools that actually have a team. Honestly, I would rather see a 50/50 split. Two divisions is a plenty for the size of your state.

I meant from 5A and 6A that would have qualified in 4A. There might be some but I want X to find them. I must have overlooked Marion. I didnt look very hard at the 321A.

SJA wrestles many tough schools so that Ryne has some competition (just kidding Will - seems to be poke Cokely day so I'm joining in!)

Again, SJA's schedule seems more challenging compared to many other schools, thus Mr. Feist perhaps had more quality losses, whatever.

If a kid goes to state with a losing record under these circumstances it's easier to understand.

X,

There are several examples that I can think of 321A or 4A wrestlers who performed well against 5A or 6A wrestlers. In 2006, Norton had a 171 who took 2nd at the Newton tournament. His name escapes me. But he had to go through several of top people in the state to make the finals. In doing so he lost to a wrestler from Perry, Oklahoma. Then at regionals he was the number 1 seed and failed to qualify. I believe this same wrestler failed to qualify the very next year under similar circumstances. Based off of his Newton results you'd expect him to be a state placer in any classification. However, he failed to even make it out of regionals because of the "quality" and "quantity" that it possessed. Coach Johnson could fill in the blanks for me.

At 152, Dalton Rodd of Campus qualified with an 10-11 record. He qualified out of one of your "quality" regionals in Wichita Northwest. Rodd failed to win a match at the Hays Prairie Classic. The runner-up of this bracket Lorenzo Delgado of Goodland didn't even make it to state due to the "quality" and "quantity" of his 321A regional. Jordan Eggers of Dodge City and Kyler Meyers of Hays both made it to state while being out performed by Delgado at the Prairie Classic.

At 135, one of the weights you've done extensive research on, Cope Wickham of Hays qualified to state with a 14-19 record. He failed to place at the Hays Prairie Classic. He lost head to head against Nash Karst of Russell who was later beaten by Austin Lopez of Ellis. Neither of the wrestlers made it to state. Travis Steenson of McPherson went 5-21 this year and made it to state. He was beaten by Tyler Worta of Ellsworth who also failed to qualify to state.

These are just results I observed while looking at one tournament. I'm sure I can find a lot more also but there is no point in me beating a dead horse. All the classes have kids who would not make it to state in various regionals, but they did qualify in the one they are in. The wrestlers deal with the cards they are dealt and just try to "take care of business". If you want the regional disparities to be fixed in each of the classifications I'd suggest contacting Rick Bowden of KSHSAA and stop making accusations about how one class is better than others because of quality. Really it's pretty equal and changes from year to year.

Last year the Large Class Schools dismantled the Small Class Schools at the Senior Classic. However, the overall record since the switch to Large/Small format is 3-2 Large Class. Not a run away by any means. Just sit back and enjoy this last week of high school wrestling.

X,
All the classes have kids who would not make it to state in various regionals, but they did qualify in the one they are in. The wrestlers deal with the cards they are dealt and just try to "take care of business". If you want the regional disparities to be fixed in each of the classifications I'd suggest contacting Rick Bowden of KSHSAA and stop making accusations about how one class is better than others because of quality.

Well you can tell Tyler Selves, that Hurla of Rossville, who Selves finished ahead of at Basehor, beat Webb of Wichita South, who qualified ahead of Selves. Hurla beat Webb 12-10 at the Council Grove Duals. Diener of Lyons also pinned Webb at the Council Grove Duals and failed to qualify..

Just thought I'd throw a little more salt into the wound.

poke cokeley day? i would prefer to hang him from the ceiling and hit him like a pinata. then again he knows i'm just kidding, and honestly he's alot more fun when he's angry. i usually try to get him fired up about one thing or another, he's turns this strange shade of red.

i will challenge all of you further. don't find just one, find FOUR. find four placers in each class, each weight, and convince them to meet at a neutral sight, and battle. when the dust clears have one champ/ all class. you could call him something catchy like GRAND STATE CHAMPION.

oh who am i kidding, it's funner to argue it here on the forums, than to watch it.

X

We can have this debate all day but what it boils down to is that every year kids do not make it to state that we as coaches and fans think are deserving. I think it makes it easier when we find an excuse like our region was tough or my classification is tougher than yours. To me these are just excuses that can be made instead of taking ownership. My 140 Johnson of Osawatomie was 27-14 and did not qualify. Throughout the year he beat 5 state qualifiers, 1 at 3a, 2 at 4a, 1 at 5a and 1 at 6a. He only had 2 loses on the season that were not to state qualifiers and those were both 4a kids. This does not tell me that 5a and 6a are stronger or weaker than 4a but that there are good wrestlers in every classification. I must say if you lose a second or first round match in a 4a region you better be ready to battle on Saturday because you will have 3 or 4 matches where anything can happen.

Good luck at state

What we need here is a guy who has wrestled 4A out West, coached 4A teams in leagues with 3As and 5As out East, and then returned to a 3A school out West. He might be able to give some clarity on the matter. I will get back to you all if I can come across a person like this. Until then, enjoy the state tournament this weekend.

I saw a cross-country skier in the Olympics from Jamaica. He was apparently the top qualifier from his country but he could not make it out of the quarter finals at the Olympics. There are many great skiers in the US who are watching from home, who could probably be Jamaican national champions if the wanted, but prefer to compete in the US rather than move. If their goal is to get to the Olympics, they should move to Jamaica. If their goal is to get on the podium, they shpould stay where they are at and get better. So one regional is tougher than the other, so what. So one class is easier to get through to state than another, so what. Either get better where you are at, or move to Jamaica and find out if it is as easy as you think.

It amazes me how much time grown men will spend measuring and re-measuring just to find out it never gets any longer..

On the regional subject. You can argue all day long if this kid was at this regional he would be going to state, but the fact of the matter is there is always goin to be a bracket at a regional that has more than 4 kids that deserve to go to state.

Redstorm,
I have coached... I have always felt that experience has given me a good grasp of the "toughness" of each class and I am more than happy to share.
~John Steiger

I can't believe I just wasted this much time of my day reading this entire thread. However, all of you make great arguements and it was nice to get away from the ringing of the bells and screaming of the kids to listen to what all of you had to say.

My opinion: Wrestling will never be perfected. It's not where you start but where you end and good kids rise to the top in the end and the not so good ones fall. If you are good enough to win any of the 4 classes of wrestling you are pretty good. If you are good enough to place in any of the four classes in wrestling you are pretty good. If you are good enough to qualify for state in wrestling and that is your main goal then you are decent but need to get better.

I would take my team to any regional in this state in all classes and either:
1) get better
2) die trying
3) have the same results of recent past and take 13 wrestlers to state.
In all cases I won't complain we will just go where we are told to wrestle.

I think 321A has good wrestlers. I think 4A has good wrestlers. I think 5A has good Wrestlers. I think 6A has good wrestlers.

I think you could pair up the top 10 teams in each class and have a 40 team grand state tournament and do it for 3 weeks in a row and the outcome would be different every time. Teams evolve, fold, get better, get worse but all in all... we are all equal. State is state and wrestling is wrestling.

Good luck to all you gentlemen this week-end and I wish you prosperous medal counts!

Maybe we can just copy and paste this thread and throw it up on the forum next February. Then we can go find a dead horse, beat the tar out of it, and see if it hops up and runs around. I'm guessing it stays dead...just like this tired old argument. 7A rules!

Ok, that's good too.

it is not more difficult to qualify in 123a it just takes longer half the kids in there don't belong so yes it does take longer to know if your going to state but not harder there is only 2 people in 123a that could even compete with the top kids from bigger divsions dang wish i could have wrestled in 123a

it is not more difficult to qualify in 123a it just takes longer half the kids in there don't belong so yes it does take longer to know if your going to state but not harder there is only 2 people in 123a that could even compete with the top kids from bigger divsions dang wish i could have wrestled in 123a