I say leave the age groups as they are. Most of our freshmen have their first exposure to wrestling in high school. Last year, my son wrestled for the 1st time as a high school Freshman and even though he qualified for Kids State, the real advantage went to the more experinced kids regardless of age. Also, many schools combine 7th, 8th & 9th grades at a Junior High and have only 10-12 at the high school.

There will always be kids who seperate from their age groups at different times. For the most part the older age kids in that group
take the top spots. If the 14 year old freshman are looking for more of a challange send them up to Brute and summer wrestle. Leave it the same.

Coach McCarthy

I have seen freshman high school kids make it to state and not make it to kids state. Kids State in some cases is more like a Grand State.

Exactly. Not a true Grand State and tougher than High School State. 7th graders wrestling 10th graders for a state medal.

Eric,

I still haven�t figured out how a sophomore could be in the 14-year old division. The only way this is possible is if you have a Doogie Houser??? �if so isn�t this kid at just as much of a �disadvantage� as a senior at High School State. If he wrestled in the 14-year old division as a sophomore he would be 16 going on 17 as a senior???

My point is�that there is always a top side for every wrestler. Some just wait a little longer to reap the rewards. The 7th graders wrestling in the 14 year old division will become a more salty and seasoned high school wrestler. �and when they are seniors, they will be without question the oldest kids competing on the mat.

I once had a Dad tell me that the hardest jump in USAW Kid�s Federation was going from the 10 to the 12 year old division. Two years later he was convinced that it was the move from 12 to 14 which was toughest. Most of these types of questions come down to your personal perspective. USAWKS ties age divisions to the school cutoff date and it is a 24 month span regardless of your grade in school. There may be other methods to group kids but I have not been convinced that we are wrong and MO is right.

I like the �Grand State� idea and if it got traction I would be in favor of moving the freshman to a High School division. But, until it is up and running you will have a difficult time convincing me that we should alter the 14 or 16 year old divisions as they are now. USAWKS works and works well.

Mark Stanley

Sean,

We understand what the route would be for our son to pick up increased competition. But that really isn't the issue here. The issue on this point that Will brought up is: Is there too much of a competitive disadvantage to the 8th graders who have not had the opportunity to practice and compete all year against the upper classmen like the freshman have?

By the 8th grade year some 8th graders unfortunately do not even have the benefit of a good practice partner their size and approximate age on their Kids team. Over the years that my son competed as a grade school wrestler in Kids, I often heard some of his coaches and other Kid coaches discuss how difficult it was for an 8th grader to compete against these incoming 9th graders due to the practice and competition advantages that the 9th graders experienced on their high school teams.

Anyway, that is what I see as the issue. Also the proponents of the current system probably have little need to worry about it changing in Kansas. It seems a major change like this rarely happens. The majority rules and the majority that vote at the State Body meeting seem to like it this way even though it is my understanding that the majority of the other states do NOT have high school wrestlers compete at their Kids State competition.

Many of the 7th graders that I am aware of who wrestle 14 and under do so because they started school a year late to gain a competitive advantage in junior and senior high sports. This is one unfortunate side affect of this process. I do not believe that I have ever heard of a sophomore in the 14s, but I'll take your word for it that it is possible and has happened. By and large the 14s are freshmen vs 8th graders. 2 ages same as all the other divisions. You can take comfort in the fact that next year you will only have to wrestle those easy 8th graders!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mark Stanley:
[qb] Eric,

I still haven�t figured out how a sophomore could be in the 14-year old division. The only way this is possible is if you have a Doogie Houser??? �if so isn�t this kid at just as much of a �disadvantage� as a senior at High School State. If he wrestled in the 14-year old division as a sophomore he would be 16 going on 17 as a senior???


My point is�that there is always a top side for every wrestler. Some just wait a little longer to reap the rewards. The 7th graders wrestling in the 14 year old division will become a more salty and seasoned high school wrestler. �and when they are seniors, they will be without question the oldest kids competing on the mat.

I once had a Dad tell me that the hardest jump in USAW Kid�s Federation was going from the 10 to the 12 year old division. Two years later he was convinced that it was the move from 12 to 14 which was toughest. Most of these types of questions come down to your personal perspective. USAWKS ties age divisions to the school cutoff date and it is a 24 month span regardless of your grade in school. There may be other methods to group kids but I have not been convinced that we are wrong and MO is right.

I like the �Grand State� idea and if it got traction I would be in favor of moving the freshman to a High School division. But, until it is up and running you will have a difficult time convincing me that we should alter the 14 or 16 year old divisions as they are now. USAWKS works and works well.

Mark,
There are sophomores that are still 14U. State Champions as well as placers. We all understand that jumping age groups is a transition period. The 14U group is clearly different in Kansas. Other states don't have this issue, we do. The "top side" for the 14U is much steeper than it should be. Why are so many other states completely convinced that its wrong to have two High School state tournaments and we think its strange to even bring it up?

Eric Johnson

Scott,

Would you tell Missouri kids that their state is dishonoring them by the rules they have? Also, you made the point of mentioning the "same opportunities". The 7th and 8th graders don't have the opportunities that the 9th and 10th graders do.

Ahh, but they will Chief, in 1 or two years, they will have those opportunities. I would like to mention also, that not all freshman and sophmores make it to high school state.

Do I think the Freshmen wrestler have an advantage over the 8th graders? I think it depends on each wrestlers. I think some some freshmen will be advantaged due to the competition and the practice partners they have had the opportunity to experience during the first part of the season. The practice partner is a big thing. I know due to the lack of a practice partner, my son has been practicing with one of his coaches. Where this is good in some ways, I do see my son not going full out with him, due to respect. So I actually don't know if it is a good practice partner for him or not.
As for the competition. We knew the first part of the season would give very little competition, we tried to take him to some "tougher" tournaments vs. all local ones. It has proven to be a smart move. Do I think he will have tougher competition starting this week? Sure. Do I think he will still be able to compete and even beat some of these freshmen? Absolutely.
Someone earlier said it is a two year spread just like every other division. I agree and I also think the freshman can be compared to the younger wrestlers that gets the advantage by being able to travel for tougher competition and attending private lessons or even at an academy in the younger divisions.
There will be an advantage for most of the freshman, but they are still part of the division as of now and I think if our 8th graders are serious about beating them, they need to give 100% over the next 3 weeks and get ready for Subs.

Genia Vincent
Olathe Wrestling Club

The freshman have a little advantage of more practice time (1 month) they also have the disadvantage in some cases if they have been pounded on by sophmores, juniors and seniors for an extra month. The eigth graders may be healthier from not getting pounded on. I still say leave it the same and it is a great way for the 8th graders to find out what is coming next year in high school. Nothing says the 8th graders or their parents who feel that there is a disadvantage - they should just start training a little earlier. I personnally think starting practice in December makes great sense for those who are trying to get their kids to peak at the end of March. I know some clubs start a month earlier than our club does. I'll never know if starting a month earlier would help in our results. 3 months of tournaments is a lot of wrestling for any age kids, high school, college or international - the body needs time to recover.

How about letting the six and unders wrestle the freshman in the weigh in room? Could we do that?