Honestly Coach Johnson,

I cannot tell you why other states do what they do. But I do know that Kansas as a wrestling sate has done very well in the last 10 years and we are only getting better. I don't really think that allowing freshman to wrestle in kids has any effect as far as making us a better state in wrestling, but I do know as a wrestler myself, any extra opporutnity for competition that I got I would take, if that meant wrestling an extra year of kids after my freshman year then so be it.

Chief Renegade: a reason why you may see that other states do not follow the Kansas model is due in part to the starting age of a child for school. Not every state has the same cut-off date for a child to be in kindergarten. There are plenty of states where the cut-off date is before June (not September), eliminating most 14 year old Freshmen. Then, there are those states like Nebraska that does not group kids by age but rather by grade. While this may seem like an ideal situation, I am sure there are parents living in those states who are upset about the unfair advantage a kid has who is "old" for their grade. Just read some of the post on the high school side over Freshman who are 16 years old.

An example to my earlier post. There are two kids in the 8th grade. One kid has a birthday in July and is only 13 years old. The other kid has a birthday in October and was held back another year in grade school so he is 15 years old. They both weigh the same and so will wrestle against each other. As a parent of the 13 year old, I may complain that it is unfair that my son has to wrestle against someone two years older than him and thus is stronger due to maturity. As a parent of the 15 year old, I may say there is nothing wrong since they both have the same opportunities to compete. Which side would you choose? I will beat you money that this debate is currently raging in those "other states" just like our debate about 8th graders vs. freshman.

I like this idea for new age groups...

7&u
9&u
11&u
13&u
High School-open to all ages

I support this idea of my age groups because, people say 6&U are too young at State move it back a year and have at it. You change the age groups a little bit by a year and then eliminate the combine of freshman and eighth graders and then you have all the high school together. It would only make sense, or maybe I'm just crazy...

Or 7th graders vs. 10th graders who have just completed their state tournament, only to compete for a kids medal the following week.

Liberty Nationals has it right. January 1st cutoff, A 14u division for 8th grade and under and a High school division. Fair for all and great competition.

I don't think you are crazy. I suggested this same change in Kids age groups several years ago. I agree with you and I agree it would make it a little better for those who advocated 6&U at State. It would also eliminate the combining of 8th graders vs. 9th graders at State.

I like the idea of a separate high school tournament with either two divisions (freshmen/JV and open) or three divisions (freshmen only, JV and open). If you held the high school tournament within a couple of weeks of this week's high school tournament, you would have a type of Grand State high school event and the high schoolers could then start freestyle immmediately. I doubt it would ever happen in Kansas but I like your idea.

Explain how a 7th grader would be competing against a 10th grader? I know of some 7th graders who have to compete against Freshman but a 10th grader? How many Sophomore's are 14? or how many 7th graders are 15?

Without naming any kids.... There was an 8th grader last year that was a 12U State Champion. He will be 14U in 9th and 10th.

There are no 15 yr. old 7th graders that I know of.

I know a sophomore who two years ago was in his second year of 12 & Under as an 8th grader, so this year as a sophomore he would qualify to wrestle 14 & Under. I think he was a September birthday and he started school early. Starting early is not common though, so there should not be a lot of sophomores in 14 & U. Most sophomores will be in 16 & U in Kansas.

As far as a 15 year old 7th grader, I am not sure if you really meant that. Most 7th graders in Kansas are in 12 & under since they do not turn 13 until September 1 or after. There are some 7th graders who turn 13 before September 1 and they have to wrestle in 14 & Under. These students either started school a little late or might have been held back a year for some reason. I believe you would find more in this group than in the group that started school early, so you should see more 7th graders than sophomores in 14&U.

The norm is 8th and 9th graders in 14&U, I would bet that over 90% of the wrestlers in 14 & Under are either 8th or 9th graders.

So just because there is one kid in the state of Kansas who is a Sophmore and could wrestle a 7th grader, that means we need to change the whole system. We had a kid in 7th grade who had to compete against freshman. He did very well and qualified to state. As an 8th grader, he was facing a whole bracket full of freshman (and some of the top ones at that). He did very well and placed 4th. As a freshman himself, he faced Seniors on a regular basis (varsity 160lbs). Having to wrestle tough competition from 7th grade on in kids fed just made him more ready for high school. Take it away and I don't know if he would have had the success he did this year (over 20 wins). Also, my son was a very young 8th grader and was able to make it to state beating 2 varsity freshman wrestlers along the way. One of them was from Clay Center and we all know they don't know how to wrestle. Again, this gave him so much confidence before his high school season began. It also built him up to face the Juniors and Seniors. I would rather see our 8th graders compete against the freshman now in kids state than to be suddenly with the big dogs once they are in high school. Think of 8th grade kids state as a step towards wrestling high school. It gives them a little bit of a feel (and in some cases reality check) of what it may be like next year.

As a parent of a 9th grader who will be wrestling in the 14&U because of when his birthday falls, if feel you all are making something out of nothing. Yes, he did practice 5 days a week for high school and has continued to practice 4 nights a week for club. I dont feel he is at an advantage over an 8th grader simply because of practicing 5 days a week. He wrestled juniors and seniors and still was not at a disadvantage. He went out and wrestled and didnt complain. Someone is always out to change the way something is, when if it has worked in the past, why change it? Let the kids wrestle. Your child will be a 9th grader one day and you all will be on the other side complaining about it then too.

whats the big deal i wrestled 140 6a and still placed as a freshman weighing about 136 all year and still placed 4th how would it be different for an 8th grader to wrestle a freshman than a freshman wrestling juniors and seniors. It doesn't mean they can't win.

Doug,

You, along with many others still haven't understood the issue. Your comment that ALL OF US will be on the other side and will complain about it too, shows a lack of understanding. Not one of the 7th grade 14U kids will ever wrestle 14U in High School. So maybe we can finally stop bringing up that tired example. Anyone that has wrestled realizes that the 14U division in KS is dominated by High School wrestlers who have competed at High School State #1 and again at High School State #2. That's why other top wrestling states overwhelmingly disagree with you. Their freestyle and greco teams have an entire month head start on us and we end up playing catch-up or not wrestling freestyle at all.

Eric Johnson

Eric, The KWCA approached Mike Juby and the Kids Executive Board with this concern in 2002. The minutes from the USAW Kansas Kids Wrestling State Body Meeting on 11/3/2002 stated the following:

"The KWCA had approached Mike and said that they would like to see the Kids wrestling season end earlier. They would like to see it end before High School State, take a couple weeks break, and then start the summer freestyle – Greco-roman season. They honestly feel we are going too long!! A brief decision followed, but it was decided to leave as is."

There was a topic in the Kids forum that Brett Shoffner introduced on March 30, 2004 called "A few thoughts in general" where Brett and Jeremy Gibson came out in strong support of this idea. You can easily get to this topic by going to the Search on this website, type in KWCA and use the option to narrow your search to the Kids forum. You will find this topic and a few others that shows this idea has been discussed about every year for the last five years.

I believe it would be an extremely difficult thing to change in our Kansas Kids system. From my perspective the support to keep the system the same appears to be overwhelming.

Eric, I just wanted to point this out to you so you and others on this topic can see that there are other wrestling people who agree with you that maybe there is a better way to help our Kansas wrestlers develop their wrestling skills.
You are not the only one to suggest that we need to get our high schoolers involved in freestyle earlier and that having them wrestle folkstyle too long increases their burnout rate and ends up discouraging them from participating in freestyle.
The same burnout issue could also keep the younger Kids wrestlers from participating in freestyle too.

i cant belive that you are complaining just wait till they get into high school they will be wrestling seniors so quit fussin

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lincolnwrestler:
i cant belive that you are complaining just wait till they get into high school they will be wrestling seniors so quit fussin [/QUOTE

Why wait, it's happening on the 11th. 7th graders against 10th graders. Lincoln, you have to read about the issues before you can believe.

Chief Renegade, on the whole I really like you but I am tired that you keep bringing up 7th graders against 10th graders. That may only apply to maybe one kid in one bracket. It is not in the majority. The majority of kids will be 8th grade and freshman wrestling against each other. There may even be a few 7th graders in the mix. However, a 10th grade 14 year old is not a common thing.

Thanks mom4 for the nice comment. I just want to make sure everyone understands the parameters. The majority are 8th graders, but there are more than a few 7th graders. I would say almost 1 in 5 are 7th grade. Most of that is shown by the close to 20% votes that are in favor of having a seperate kids and High School state.

20% isn't even in the realm of being close to changing a by law here at usawks. Not withstanding the fact that not everyone who represents USAWKS is voting.