It is a constantly debated subject regarding 6 and under state and the like. I am curious about when other clubs start their seasons and their tournament schedules.

It is of note because 6 & unders are the highest number of kids, and it declines with each age category after that. My position regarding youth sports(wrestling included) should be to foster a love of the sport and teach some basic technique. The goal being to have a kids stay out for the sport through high school.

In other words, the trend of declining involvement as the kids get older is not meeting the goal of youth sports. Ideally, those numbers should grow each age class, with more 12 & unders and less 6 & unders.

Speaking for our club, kids start wrestle, a year or two and quite. We then do not have very many kids in the older age classes moving into the Jr. High and High School program.

There are several factors that contribute to this. Of course, it is impossible to keep every kid out. First, recalling last season's tournament schedule the youth season is longer than the high school season. For kids, 6,8, 10, and even 12 years old that is a long season.

Second, no kid and most adults do not want to give up every Saturday for 3-4 months. The parents have to like it as much as the kids. These tournaments are not exactly the most fun for parents, especially if they are long and your kid only has a couple of matches.

We do not force kids to go to tournaments, but it is like an arms race, the other kids are going so we should too. Nobody wants to miss or start later, because the competition is already going at it.

What can be done? Why do we not have any regulation on the start of our season? High School sports have dates, some youth sports do. Keep the season at two or three months. The young kids start to grow weary, I noticed this at the State tournament, when some of the better wresters just looked flat. This would relieve the issue of the competition getting a leg up by starting earlier.

Utilizing weeknight duels to get matches, instead of wrestling tournaments every weekend.
This would help sell the parents on the sport, and give the kids some concept of the team side of the sport that they will be exposed to in High School and beyond.

These are only a couple of ideas to increase the interest. I think each coach and program need to keep it interesting through their practice regime. Also, taking the kids to High School and College events. Mere exposure will generate interest.

I expect these ideas will not be popular, but felt that I must express them.

Being from a rather large sports town, I felt I needed to add my 2 cents here. I agree that all kids should be nurtured into the love of the sport, no matter what sport you are talking about.

A lot of the reason that the numbers drop off as the kids get older may or may not be for a lack of love for the sport, but might possibly be a love for a different sport, or possibly a distaste for a certain sport. When you look at the schedules of all sports and their respective seasons, you may notice that we don’t give our kids much rest in between seasons. Couple that with the trend of specializing in a certain sport (year round baseball, soccer, etc.) the seasons are never-ending.

Personally as I was growing up, I had baseball in the summer, followed by football in the fall, then indoor soccer started directly after that in the winter, with spring soccer to follow that. Eventually, I specialized with soccer myself and played all the way through college. Had I been exposed to wrestling as a kid, I am sure that I would not have burned out of it like I see many kids/parents do anymore. However, I was and am very competitive and the love for sport has always driven me to do my best in that sport.
I see this quality in my kids as well. My youngest fell in love with wrestling in his first year last year, and because of this he was rather successful. His love for wrestling even determined that he would put off his other favorite sport of baseball for a little while to compete in the freestyle-greco season. Baseball ended and 2 weeks later football starts up (this is his first year he is old enough to play football and we want to always expose both of our kids to all sports) as soon as football is over, wrestling starts back up. So you can see how the seasons start to blend in together. It is my feeling that this is a main reason that kids (as they get older) begin to choose one sport to specialize in and it is also the reason that parents get burned out on certain sports.

All parents want their child to do well in a sport be it wrestling, baseball, football, soccer, basketball, or whatever. Unfortunately with today’s society, winning is everything and learning life lessons is not always the top priority for the parents. In saying that, parents get discouraged if their kids are not the best in the respective sport, and thus numbers drop as they try to find whatever activity their kid does best.
Honestly, if you, as a parent, don’t have a love for sport and merely go to a wrestling tournament to watch your own kid wrestle, then you are in for a long and boring Saturday. I suggest that each wrestling club have a parent’s meeting before the season starts and make a few suggestions to help the parents get more involved with the entire club and not just their own kids. This could be merely watching a few of the practices, or watching some high school matches, and getting to know some of the other wrestlers in the club so as to cheer them on when their kid is not wrestling, and maybe this will help make it not as torturous as it may seem for some parents.

The wrestling season is long and grueling but I have found, as have my kids, that we are already missing it and can’t wait for the season to start back up again. I guess you can just call us crazy or something like that.

... just thinking out loud here ... and hoping not to show too much ignorance.

In the martial arts they have demonstrations where competitors show mastery of technique. This gives youngsters, a chance to practice what they have been taught without the full contact.

What if we had something similar for 6 & unders? I see it as a demonstation; where they can demonstate stance, motion, level change, penetration, lifting, down blocks, sprawls, various setups etc. With the use of a partner; kids can demonstate mastery of counter techniques, rides, pinning combo's etc.

Am I completly wet? Would this be a fantastic way our youth can show their understanding of basic techniques?

If standing outside in the Wichita area over the last couple of nights yes. Otherwise, no I think you have a good point.

Couple of brief comments as I have commented on this subject in the past. I would hope that more kids, not less are given opportunities to wrestle. I have spoken to my good friend Smokeycabin about this, and it may be surprising that I am struggling with one of the issues related to 6 & Under at state. That struggle has to do with the fact that I believe more kids get the opportunity to participate at Ottawa, than they would if they went to Topeka. I won't elaborate much there but for some to know that I am struggling with this issue, is a change from past perspectives. Who says people can't change?

Other comment; I still believe that one reason kids drop out of sports as they get older is that expectations get higher and activity or play time is lessened. All sports have a drop out rate, and as you get older, there is more pressure on winning, and making the team. Truth is that regarding wrestling on a Jr. High or High School level, you only have 1 kid that takes on a varsity spot. Not many kids want to be the 3rd best wrestler at a weight for a school. I also believe that the more kids are exposed to other sports the likelihood is greater they want to do those sports.

I saw a number of wrestlers at the World Team Trials that wrestled as small children, like 6 & 8 and under. The number was very high. While there are exceptions with people like Mo Lawal, who didn't start until later in High School, they are the exception. The key is in how and what those kids are taught. There are different philosophies here and I won’t mention mine because I know it will be too controversial. I know there is probably a whole can of worms opened up. After all of this rain though, I don't remember if the fishing is better or worse after a hard rain.

... it just seems that kids demonstating abilities versus physical competition (which has its drawbacks as well as benefits) is a good alternative. And, if we had levels (such as belt advancements) to show mastery of new skills.

For the past several years in my clinics I have presented the fact that 70% of kids are done with competitive sports by the time they reach the age of 13. The number 1 reason for this, is the lack of fun. The 2nd, is too much pressure from adults.

I do not necessary oppose a 6 & under state but think it ought to be in February and then their season could be over after a couple of months. I like Mr. Hinderliter's idea about demonstrations for the younger kids. I have read the comments and like the discuss.

I think that it is short sighted for a kid to start specializing in one sport at the age of 6, 8 or 10. You eliminate the enjoyment of other activities. Also, I have read articles and Mr. Sayler has posted information on the physical damages specialization of one sport at an early age can do to a body.

My suggestions is to limit the length of the season for the younger kids to try to avoid too much overlap with the other sports and give them a break. A long season for a 6, 8, or 10 year old may lead to burning them out, and not just in wrestling, but all sports.

I agree with shawndj and usawks 1. There has been lots of discussion and research into the harmful effects of competitive sports on kids at a young age. In fact, ESPN had a feature on little league baseball/youth sports. With my two cents thrown in: wrestling is a wonderful sport but the season is way too long (especially for the younger kids.) No one should specialize in just one sport under the age of 14. A child should be encouraged to try as many different sports as they can and the "changing of the sports" makes it more fun and challenging. Just because someone is a super stud at the age of 6-8-10 does not mean that person will continue to be the super stud. Likewise, just because a kid struggles in a sport does not mean that same kid will continue to struggle in that sport. If a kid starts wrestling and has a lot of success earlier on-they start to think they will always have success. When they don't (because they have been moved up to a different bracket) they can get very discouraged and want to quit. The rationale about kids dropping sports when they get older due to the reason's stated by Crash99 are usually only seen at larger schools-not smaller ones. Think back to the days when sports was you getting a bunch of your friends together and finding an empty lot to play. No coaches, no fans, no rules, no "right technique", no pressure-just fun.

mom4 you may be right, my perspective is from my own experience having grown up in Derby and being a Derby Alumni, I have always been in the larger school scenario. I have pondered the effects of moving kids from a larger school to a smaller school system to better improve a child's involvement in the varsity athletics. I believe this to be a farce. If a child is driven by a successful outcome and not by personal development in the sport, then the parent has failed that child. In my opinion, I believe this tactic to be similar to taking a state placer to a novice tournament so as to get some easy matches in order to work on his/her moves and collect some hardware. The drive in that instance would be motivated not for personal development but out of wanting to be the biggest fish in a sea of minnows.

I believe that all kids should have the opportunity to be in athletics to whatever degree they wish. I always make a pact with my own kids when we start a sports season, that once they start they won't quit and if the sport is not for them after a couple of seasons we will determine, as a family, the personal developments which came out of the experience. My oldest son is where we have had to do this with most often because he has yet to discover his inner drive for sports (which I can see because he has the exact same personality traits as myself). This is one of the reasons that I have a very hard time coaching him in any sport. My youngest, we don't have to make that pact with very often. This shows that my own kids develop at different rates and I understand this. I have taught my kids that if they want anything in life, they must put all their effort into it and they will succeed, win or lose the effort given rewards success.

However, this is not on topic with the original post.

At first, I was for the issue of having 6 and Unders at the State tournament, and I am still mixed in my feelings on this issue. I agree that ALL kids should be given the opportunity to compete. This is why I support a good Novice program feeding into an even better Advanced program for kids wrestling. Maybe this is the avenue that Kansas needs to address more for the 6 and Unders than anything. 6 and Unders are just beginning to learn the sport and are developing into better wrestlers as they learn over the years. Those that are exceptional talents at 6 and Under make it to state at the 8 and Under level. Therefore, maybe 6 and Unders should still be considered as "Novice" and left out of the State tournament as an age group, however anyone under the age of 8 can still qualify for the tournament just like it has been in the past.

I feel that USAW-Kansas needs to focus on those age groups which are feeders into the high schools. However, there are only a limited number of roster spots on any given high school wrestling team. To try to combat this drop in sheer numbers (because of mere lack of roster spots) maybe USAW-Kansas needs to add a High School division with High School weights to allow for more opportunities at the high school level. This would allow for those kids that didn't quite make the high school team (be it to being a Junior losing a spot on the team to a Senior or what not). This might encourage kids to stick with it even if they are unable to make their local high school team.

My suggestion, drop the 16 Under age group and make it High School Age group with High School weights. You may have instances where you have a 15 year old wrestling a 17 year old, but that's what you would have in the high schools anyhow, so there is no real difference. You could even have the High School division State tournament before the KSHSAA Tournament, set your USAW-Kansas team and coordinate with the KSHSAA to enter this USAW-Kansas team as an entry into the KSHSAA State tournament somehow.

Okay maybe my idea of having an Independent team entering into the KSHSAA tourney isn't feasible.

However, If it were planned out to have a USAW-Kansas High school age group State about the same time as or shortly after the KSHSAA state tournament then maybe the Freestyle-Greco season could start earlier for these high schoolers to prepare for the Kansas National Team competitions. Which we all know the numbers drop off considerably going from Folkstyle to Freestyle-Greco. This is mainly due to the length of the Folkstyle season, and then to go through pretty much all summer doing Freestyle-Greco that makes for a VERY long season indeed. Just a few thoughts flowing here.

i am for the 6 and unders going to the state tournement because I have a son who is going to be in his third year in the 6 and under division
and to keep him from getting burned out we allow him to play other sports like soccer baseball and flag football we would like him to try freestyle and greco but it would keep him from doing the other sports that he also enjoys.

A couple of random thoughts and ideas on the subject...

1. 6 & unders at state: I personally do not feel strongly either way. If we keep it the way it is now then I recommend we have some kind of qualifying tournament for the 6&U state. The reason I say this is that there are weight classes that have 30-64 kids in them. That is a lot of wrestling for those little guys in only a 1 day tournament. I recommend having a 6&U districts and take the top 4 or 5 out of the districts so you limit the # of wrestlers in the brackets at state. Ottawa does an absolutely fantastic job w/the 6&U state and it is a very,very special tournament for those kids. I am not sure if they would get the same attention at the "big kid" tournament.

2. "Wrestling season is too long and gruelling." I agree that the season can be too long, however, I don't think that there is a rule that stipulates you have to wrestle every weekend. The only time you really have to wrestle is at sub-districts so you can qualify for districts, etc. That really equates to 3 weeks. Now this is a little dramatic because we all know the more matches you get the more experience you get but as a parent you can regulate the # of tournaments in which your kid participates.

3. Still not sure where to fall on the "mastery of skills idea". I know for me when I was little and wrestling I would have quit. The skills were important but what I enjoyed the most was the competition regardless of whether I won or lost. Demonstrations are just that....demos...not the same as doing the real thing. You have to do that in martial arts because competitors need to learn how to protect themselves so they don't get knocked out. In wrestling if you don't learn defense you get pinned (no potential for permanent brain damage).

Just my two cents.

Shawn ... I know this is off-topic, but when are you headed to Manhattan this weekend (and don't tell me you can't go!) ...... even Col. Jackman is going to be there from Argentina! ...... we're heading up on Friday for some golf and the annual round-up at Auntie Mae's (we may do our stretching there too since it's so hard to warm up befor a match nowadays) ...... digger