Just an FYI I an not a parent of a wrestler. My daughter is 21 years old (and is a dancer) and my son is 8 years old (and does football/basketball/baseball). I had went to the meet to think about putting him in it. It was my first one and I by no means ever would have suggested that I know enough to be a ref (nor would I want to be one). I only heard a ref on another mat say it was a pin as well as the person that ran the 6U event. I just stated above how I like that we can all write our opinons and it putting things into perspective so not sure why you would include me in the above post.