This is easy, sure they have a major impact on most wrestlers, and the Turner people should know. For the record, only 23 percent of schools in Kansas still have a jur. high program. Budget cuts across the states have ripped many a programs from the schools, not only athletics. Superiorsteve's starting response commends these programs, then does a u-turn. Starting with "they serve to teach some funamental technique", most of those club coaches haved produced kids with great technique, from grambies,tilts,scrambles,standups,single and double legs, and on and on. Heck, your comment on moves that don't work good in high school(head and arm) Tristan Deshazer has won 3 high schools state championships using it still(hip toss). Most 7 and 8 grade programs only run for around 45 days, give or take, so how would you teach in such short time, so many moves or techniques. Kids that wrestle 7 to 9 months out of a year will by far in percent, excell further than those that do not compete on a consistent competitive level. Also as for practice,discipline,sacrifice,mental and physical demands, they are still there, even at 8, 10, 12, 14 and 16 years old. They go to school,they travel, bring school work along, eat on the run, but most of them love it because of the desire to wrestle. A parent sacrifice,PRICELESS. I know a high school program that goes to 6,7,and 8,th. grades, and puts on an exhibition in sept. to get thier kids involved in their kids wrestling programs. Does yours do that? Try it with positive input to your club coaches, that could fill your void you are missing with no 8th grade program. Your kids program, by far has lifted turner to new levels,Smith,Bales,Hansen,Bird,Hulse,Thompsons,Figgie,Steinmets,Lee,Smith,Currans, I've watched them for a few years, take our medals. Their level speaks for itself. Club coaches like,Knox,Cisper,Zamm,Gonzales(kids and h.s.),and many many more do know more than just "some funamentals" even your own club coaches with the last names of the kids above. All coaches help to train the brain of young athletes.Many of times I have herd a H.S. coach tell a wrestler to get his bu!! into the club to get more mat time and competition after the h.s. season was over. Well its late,late flight in, early flight at 11, got to go. Superiorsteve, one last question, would you rather have your 8th. program or your kids club? Check your state placers, that should be your answer.