Wrestling Talk Forums supported
USA Wrestling-Kansas KWCA Wrestling Talk Forums supported & maintained by USA Wrestling-Kansas USAW USA Wrestling-Kansas 
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Topeka tourney- what was missing? #348 02/21/05 03:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3
B
bioturtle Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
B
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3
First of all I would like to let those running the show at Topeka know that despite the late start due to bracket changes, it was a well-run tournament. However, myself and several others I spoke with, were somewhat disturbed that there was no National Anthem or Pledge of Allegiance to start the activity. After thinking about it, this was the first out of all the sporting events I have participated in and my children have participated in that this has happened. Was there a reason or just an oversight? I hope this is not some new trend starting.

Re: Topeka tourney- what was missing? #349 02/21/05 04:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,426
Nigel Isom Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,426
I was there and I think I can offer you an explanation. As you know the tournament did get off to a late start because they had over 1000 wrestlers and 100+ scratches. With that number of scratches alot of brackets had to be reworked. It was nearing 10:30 by the time the first 5 tables worth of brackets were complete. A decision was made to go ahead and start wrestling on those mats while the brackets were being finished for the others. I really am neutral about this whole thing only because I have been to thousands of tournaments and events and heard the Anthem thousands of times so missing out on 1 time out of thousands isn't really doing to disapoint me, and honestly I don't think it should disppoint you either. Trust me its not going to be a trend.


William Nigel Isom
Officials Director (USAWKS)
KSHSAA #14274
USAWKS #577
Riley KS
Re: Topeka tourney- what was missing? #350 02/21/05 04:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 601
wrestlingparents Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 601
Nigel,
Just curious, what mat were you on in Topeka?

Re: Topeka tourney- what was missing? #351 02/21/05 05:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 301
Scott Fausset Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 301
I know you mean well, but you're killin me hauss...a gung ho guy like you...

I wore the military uniform for 20 years...yes, admittedly I'm one of those few...but it really does means more and more to me each time I hear it...I'm not that old, but I've lost a few, and it reminds me every time what I owe them.

That said, I understand your (and everyone else's) good intentions and the one off.

Yeah, which one were you? I'd like to put a face and handshake to the wisdom.


You can’t stop the waves, but you can learn to surf. -- Joseph Goldstein
Re: Topeka tourney- what was missing? #352 02/21/05 06:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,426
Nigel Isom Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,426
I was on Mat 14 most of the day, and I got the pleasure of working the third to last match of the day. In any case, I found this situation a little like missing 1 weekend of church. You aren't going to the naughty place just becasue you missed a week of church, If I miss an anthem or two thats not going to make me less American or less Patriotic. As I said it was a somewhat isolatated situation that doesn't happen too often so don't go getting all worried about it just yet.


William Nigel Isom
Officials Director (USAWKS)
KSHSAA #14274
USAWKS #577
Riley KS
Re: Topeka tourney- what was missing? #353 02/21/05 06:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 110
L
LegRider Offline
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 110
I must say though - That hospitality room was top notch. It was like being in Willy Wonka's Pizza factory.

I"ve been avoiding the hospitality rooms this year as I tend to over indulge myself, but seeing that BBQ pizza, I lost control.

Re: Topeka tourney- what was missing? #354 02/21/05 08:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 301
Scott Fausset Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 301
Nigel,
Did you ref the 12/130 brackets, and make a call on one wrestler for "slamming the other to the mat without control"?


You can’t stop the waves, but you can learn to surf. -- Joseph Goldstein
Re: Topeka tourney- what was missing? #355 02/21/05 11:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,426
Nigel Isom Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,426
Yes I did make that call, because I had to. As i'm sure you are aware if you bring another wrestler off of his feet it is that wrestlers responsibility to bring them down under control. As I saw it the wrestler dropped him straight on his back hard, it wasn't the hardest drop I've ever seen and I don't really think he did it on purpose or with intent to harm, but the way he was brought down wasn't under control.


William Nigel Isom
Officials Director (USAWKS)
KSHSAA #14274
USAWKS #577
Riley KS
Re: Topeka tourney- what was missing? #356 02/22/05 03:19 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 301
Scott Fausset Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 301
Fortunately, it did not affect the outcome of the match. However, I must respectfully disagree and seek to understand. I (and others) was shocked by the call. I think the opposing camp was even pleasantly surprised.

That was among the gentlest "throws" (as you called it) I'd ever seen before that day, and certainly of that day. I saw it as an assertive takedown that went easier than planned. The defender was lifted only slightly over or above his own hips. He merely had his hips/legs slightly pulled up and then out from under him, the result of an untimely squared-up stance begging for attention.

The attacker did not purposely accelerate the defender's fall with his body or flop on top, as was his natural momentum. Instead he intentionally landed on his knees and hands to slow down, because it came easier than he expected.

Yes, the attacker did not prepare to gently catch the defender's fall...nor should he be expected to...it was a textbook takedown that happened very quickly.

The sport is wrestling. While I don't condone poor sportsmanship nor brutal mistreatment, I also don't recommend gently laying him on the mat...that effort in of itself would always place one or both athletes in danger.

I think you would have coached the defender to not get caught in a squared-stance or to immediately turn to belly-down in such a circumstance.

What would you have had the attacker do to avoid the appearance of "slamming him without controlling the defender's fall" and drawing the call? He needs to know for the future. His coach and I would like to give him sound advice. And I would never want him to appear unsportsmanlike in a ref's eyes, or anyone else's for that matter.

Please understand, my intent is not to attack you, rather to understand. I respect you for sticking to your call that you made with good intentions. Yours is too often a thankless job. And you conducted your self very admirably.


You can’t stop the waves, but you can learn to surf. -- Joseph Goldstein
Re: Topeka tourney- what was missing? #357 02/22/05 05:00 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,426
Nigel Isom Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,426
It would be very difficult to describe on paper what is looks like in the eyes of an official. I think the easiest way to avoid a call like this is to not bring someone down with force in the situation you described. In this situation what I saw was the defenders legs flailing, and then I saw his head hit the mat very squarely, accompanied by a very deadening thud. These are all fairly tale tale signs of an uncontrolled decent. As I indicated earlier I did not think that what happened was done on purpose or to harm anyone, but because of what I did see I had to make the call.

You know one of the things that litteraly scares me as an official is when a wrestler hits a double leg and picks their opponent up off the mat, and I've got to be in fairly close and I will always verbal warn that wrestler to "Bring him/her down easy" And the thing thats running through my mind is "Gosh I hope they don't just slam them down on the mat" I've seen it happen, I've seen concusions result from it, its very scary. Thats why at this level of wrestling im gonna error on the side of caution and expect wrestlers to in fact bring them down gently"

Obviously I don't mean lay them down on the mat liek you would a baby in a crib. But someone's head bouncing off the mat probably isn't a good thing.


William Nigel Isom
Officials Director (USAWKS)
KSHSAA #14274
USAWKS #577
Riley KS
Re: Topeka tourney- what was missing? #358 02/23/05 12:17 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 301
Scott Fausset Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 301
Okay, thanks for trying to answer, at least you made an attempt nonetheless. I understand what you mean though, it can get pretty scary, and kids do get hurt. He's had his fair share, but it's his choice to continue and I have to respect that. Everything worth doing has an element risk.

Although I can't advise my wrestler to avoid opportunities like square-stance-drops or doubles, I will certainly discuss this issue with him and we will try to help him find a way to avoid the call during your matches.

You are going to get pretty busy making that call at subs, district, and state. But that's why they pay you instead of me.

Hey, on a lighter note, the last two matches of the day were that same 12/130 bracket...did you watch them?


You can’t stop the waves, but you can learn to surf. -- Joseph Goldstein

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 128 guests, and 2 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
bvswwrestling, CoachFitzOS, Dluce, Shawn Russell, CorbinPickerill
12302 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics36,088
Posts250,718
Members12,302
Most Online1,305
Mar 13th, 2025
Top Posters(All Time)
usawks1 8,595
smokeycabin 6,248
Aaron Sweazy 5,262
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.2
(Release build 20190702)
PHP: 7.2.34 Page Time: 0.030s Queries: 13 (0.005s) Memory: 0.7997 MB (Peak: 0.9624 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2025-07-27 08:12:33 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS