Hmmmmmm lets see here Larry Perez stuck the majority of his oppponents with the snake. That move is taught at a very young age, and I know he hasnt pinned shumate with it but it has gotten him 2 titles and i'm sure it got him into the finals up there in Fargo last summer. So you go ahead and tell me that those moves hurt you as you get older. I think it is all in how you use them.