But where can we go that will have enough floor space for the mats, seating and hotel rooms for everyone? There isn't any place. Sure, if Salina wants to build a 16,000 seat arena and a couple more big hotels, maybe, but under the current State tournament schedule, it isn't going to happen.

I remeber my sophomore year (2001) watching Josh Carrol, Josh Lattimer, and Gerad Speer all repeat as state Champions at 215. That was an impressive site, one that many would have missed if they split up state tournaments.

Tanner Gardner
Blake Malloy
Dusty Spaulding
Anthony Whetstone
Jeremiah Beltran

Five more names that no one from 4A would have seen.

"We want to leave 5A and 6A" is all we ever hear. I think the fact that missing out on a nice dinner is a lame excuse to split up the classes. Besides, it's pretty sweet to be completely immersed in wrestling for two straight days. If you have a point besides "we want to start later," please let us know. Otherwise, I don't understand why you want to leave so bad.

And I think Nigel is just the leader of a vocal (if inarticulate) minority. I would say 75% of all wrestlers want the classes to stay together.

I personally would liked to have seen more 3-2-1a teams when I went to state, because a lot of the tournaments I went to had schools around that size (and 4a schools). Most schools in my league are 3a and most of the wrestlers I wrestled all season were from 3-2-1a and 4a schools. I would have loved to see the Hoxie team and how dominant they could be. I really don't know and don't care about 5a or 6a schools and would rather have 4a and 3-2-1a in the same location. In my opinion, that makes more sense.

Whetstone stole an egg McMuffin from me once..lol

There are pros and cons...not too longs ago there were 3 guys that became 4x champs on the same day if memory serves me correctly...Seeing Ark City's long dominance of 1st place taken away, but also some of the bad like a miscellaneous slash throat incident...I like the atmosphere and being on the floor it's fun as you can talk with media and other wrestlers....heck Sky Siemers (my sis in law's brother) made it to state in 1999 and we took our niece onto the floor and the Manhattan cheerleaders were awesome in helping us to get her to quit fussing...she fell right asleep. Wrestling as a community needs to stick together, but sometimes a year or 2 of breathing room just might be what the doctor prescribed.

If you were not entertained by the Shawn Bunch/Thomas Rhodes fnal then you are not much of a wrestling fan. Many, many other exciting matchups in both 5A & 6A. I am a 4A fan and I do believe it is tougher to qualify for state through 4A regionals, however, I believe that the quality at the top 6 levels out and generally becomes equal at state. I'm not so sure that the comfort and speed of the venue would be worth not witnessing many of the great matchups and "old friends". Nigel certainly does not speak for this 4A fan.

Prant,
I don't view this as a 4A vs 5 & 6A arguement. Rather from the posts I've seen on here for the last two years it seems to be a North vs South arguement. I could be wrong, but I don't remember seeing any 4A fans from south of the Mason/Dixon line (Hwy 56) complaining about the venue or combined class tournament. Maybe it's time for southern Kansas wrestling to secede from northern Kansas wrestling. I know as a native northerner Prant this puts you in a precarious situation but I feel you will make the right decision and fight the tyranny of the northern Kansas fans/coaches.

Scroll up just a little bit...

I'm a 4a guy and I mainly stick to the 4a matches, but i often end up watching some of the other matches from different classes if they interest me. In a perfect world we would have all classes in the same arena, but that won't happen. A part of me wants to split away from 5 and 6a, but a bigger part of me wants them to stick together.

pups,

Don't force me to break out this famous line from another board......... Pups4ever.."Ok, y'all got me. I said something pretty stupid."

I fail to see how I've said anything stupid (at least on these message boards). I really didn't care much for the 5a and 6a matches and would have much rather seen the 3-2-1a matches. I think the tournaments should be 4a and 3-2-1a at the same place and 5a and 6a at the same place.

I’m going go out on a limb here and say a few more things here.

First and foremost as I said in my original post, I speak only for myself when it comes to this subject. It is my personal opinion and should be respected as such. Prant, I’m not trying to lead anyone much less try to convince anyone else to change their opinion. Simply put I said I don't really like watching 5A and 6A. However I would have like to watched 321A wrestle, and in fact I got a change to several times as it was always taped and played back on PBS. For as much respect as 5A and 6A people have for 4A I don't see any reason why they should stay at the same tournament. I didn't even bother to watch that one kid wrestle and then do his infamous "cut throat" after that match which was extremely unsportsmanlike. Now that doesn't have anything to do with a particular class I’m just saying it wasn't watching those matches because 5 and 6A bored me. I hear a lot of complaining that people don't want the tournament split up but I can pretty much tell you that it is inevitable. They can't have it in Wichita next year. And there just isn't anywhere else in the state that can support all three classes. Personally if 4A gets moved to Salina I would be in heaven cause that is only 60 miles from me, its basically home field for Abilene, and I could watch 4 mats of pure 4A action. All I can say at this point is everyone here whining about how they don't want this to happen should probably start warming up to the idea that is going to. 4A most likely will end up at a State as 1 class, while 5 & 6A will probably be pair together. And it won’t be the first time this has been the case in the history of Kansas wrestling.

OK, here is my two cents worth from my penny head...

If/when the Kansas Coliseum is not used, the KSHSAA will probably go to single class state tournaments...

Bramlage (K-State) and Allen Fieldhouse (KU are plenty big enough to hold a multiple class tournament, but people say that because they dumped their wrestling programs, they shouldn't be used...I say get over it! Granted, scheduling could be a problem, but if they are capable of hosting a big event, go after it...

Now, as far as single-class tournaments are concerned, these are the current options: Gross Arena in Hays (which 3-2-1A is already satisfied with, seats 4,600), the Bicentennial Center in Salina (seats 6,500; the Kansas Expocenter in Topeka (seats 10,000); and Koch Arena in Wichita (aka Levitt Arena, seats over 10,000). Then there is also the possibility of John Lance Arena in Pittsburg (seats about 6,000)...And what about Ahearn Fieldhouse in Manhattan (seats 11,000)???...Future possibilities include an 8,000 seat arena that is in the works in the Olathe area and there is talk of a possible "coliseum" near the Kansas Speedway in western KCK...

High schools are not an option...I can't think of one high school that is remotely big enough to put four wrestling mats down, then have enough seating for 3,000-4,000 people...

Some think that media coverage will improve if the KSHSAA adopts single-class state tournaments...As one who was in the media for 20 years, trust me, it will get worse...Newspaper sports staffs around the state are already stretched to the limit...By having possibly 4 different tournaments, you will see that some tournaments will not be staffed by certain papers as they will rely on the Associated Press (which consists of the state's bigger papers) for stories and results...You won't have the "hometown" or personal stories...You'll get a generic story and results...That's it...And as far as television--forget it...Unless the tournament is in that station's town, it won't be covered...

My wish would be for all four tournaments (3-2-1A, 4A, 5A, 6A) to be held at Allen Fieldhouse over the course of three days (similar to what Missouri does in Columbia)...It can easily be done if the KSHSAA would get its head out of its backside...

I am confused as to how there is tyranny imposed by the Northern schools. Wichita seems pretty far South to me, and most of the 5a/6a schools make the trek down to the Colisseum every year with minimal complaining.

I would like to point out that if Kansas had a perfect wrestling venue- where the building wasn't old and cracked and if there was a nicer security staff, you would never see this topic.

Nigel, I find it impossible to believe that you didn't watch the Carrol/Hemmerling, Bunch/Bradley, or Knox/Garcia matches with at least a little bit of interest. None of those wrestlers on the above list interested you at all? Not one single bit? Seeing Manhattan lose state by 1 point didn't fill you with glee?

I question your veracity, sir.

(That means you're lying.)

What about 6A repulses u people?? I find all the other classifications fascinating and delightful. It is splitting up the classes that would create more hostility between the A's.

Personally of all the classes, i am least interested in 321A only because i hardly ever get to see them. Thus since i cannot see the 321As, i cannot relate to any of the famous faces and names in that class. If 321A somehow worked out a deal w/ all the other classes, im sure everyone would learn to appreciate the other's quality of wrestlers and grow an interest in the other classes as well.

Ya see, that's why I'm not that interested in 5a or 6a. I'm not saying that they are bad, I'm saying that I'm more interested in 4a and 3-2-1a because I wrestled those teams all year long.

GorillaHawk,
It's not a question of seating capacity at any of the university sights you list it is a matter of floor space. Again, I do not believe any of those arenas can hold 8 full mats along with all the scorers, announcers and computer tables.

Prant,
Sorry to see you've went over to the dark (north) side. As to the Coliseum and it's need for repairs there are about 30 million dollars worth coming. As to the security guards we southerners will continue to sit in the seats as opposed to the aisles and not risk being thrown out.

My reasons for the split are simple:

I want my wrestlers to get to bed earlier on Friday night.

I want my wrestlers to have to go through less hell at weigh-ins.

I want my wrestlers to get to have time for a decent meal after weigh-ins on Friday morning and night because we will start later on Friday and get done earlier on Friday night. (4 mats).

I want my wrestlers to get more rest because we can start later on Saturday as well.

I want it to be less of a zoo due to there only being one class.

I don't want my wrestlers to wait for me as I stand in line Friday night for an hour to get an updated bracket because the overworked staff can't keep up.

I want my wrestlers to be the only show in town like the 321A guys in Hays.

I want my wrestlers to deal with a friendly staff that isn't frustrated with the mess and stress caused by too many classes together (again look to Hays for an example).

I guess I can live with State as it is, but that doesn't mean I can't want something better.

P.S. I have a sad confession to make. I have been at Colby for 3 years and the only match from 5A or 6A that I have ever watched was Prant's last match at State because we Colby coaches just had to see the Forum Legend in action. It is not that I disrespect 5A and 6A or don't care; I just am too wrapped up in our wrestlers to get a chance to look down at that end. We usually take 6 to 9 guys and we are busy getting them ready, coaching them, watching their upcoming opponents, or watching guys from our regional that we know.

Prant....you said and I quote "I would like to point out that if Kansas had a perfect wrestling venue- where the building wasn't old and cracked and if there was a nicer security staff, you would never see this topic." I see ur point, but I have been told that they are going to do some renovating of the coliseum...as far as security goes, the friend of mine that works there happens to be security...now I'm not stickin up for him or anything cuz he hasn't had to do wrestling, he has always had to do the other thing they have goin on up there at the same time; but what I am saying..is that some of those guys that do that, have to work any where from 10-14 hour shifts every day...now I don't know about you, but if I had to put up w/ that many people there for so long...I'd probably be a little cranky my self. BUT you are also right in saying that they could be a little nicer over all.

Thank you, RJW, for finally posting a meritous argument as to why you want the classes split up. Some of your points I can not argue, but I will try to offer my point of view as well.

I think the fact that state is a zoo just adds to the excitement. Even though they are overworked, I think the volunteers do an excellent job of keeping everything in order, and don't really see how a noticeable improvement could be made by a separation.

The weigh in was undesirable--especially when you're near the fat end and have to stand next to guys like Jhris and Venegas when they aren't wearing pants. But to weigh in that many wrestlers in the amount they do is pretty impressive.

You as a coach may not have watched many matches, but I guarantee the wrestlers and spectators do. I never would have seen Earl Jones wrestle had it not been for state, and you must remember that by the finals, 95% of people are spectators.

The mats at state are supersoft. Seriously, I could sleep on those things.

I think you may find that an earlier end to Friday does not necessarily mean more sleep for your wrestlers. After staying with the team for 4 state tournaments, I can guarantee that teams from all over the state engage in shenanigans. Not saying that all do, but there are some.

In addition to that, it's very hard for a high schooler to sleep with all the excitement. Even if he isn't engaging in shenanigans, he's probably just staring at the ceiling or watching softcore porn.

Finally, I'd just like to say thanks for watching my last match. It was quite disappointing, as that was the only time in two years of varsity wrestling that I had been thrown...but what can you do? No biggie.