Nice stats and lots of work there SmokeyCabin. Thank you for trying so hard to make the figures work to prove that wrestling on your feet is not the most important part of the sport. How do you explain no nearfalls in 2005 finals? I've heard it said that figures don't lie but liars always figure. We're all talking about this because KS coaches, in general, teach a grab a wrist and ride'em out style without working too hard on top and the refs are accomplices in this degradation of our sport. It bores me to tears and doesn't help our kids. You guys need to see to venture out of your state just a little to see what's making the KC, MO kids so much better than what we've got in KS. Take a look at what Oak Park did to some of our better teams at Baldwin. Oak Park/Blue Springs Liberty and others are more consistent all over but especially from their feet. Great stances, active and heavy hands, superb hc series, underhook to snap down the head to front headlock series with knee taps, head in the hole, etc. Very good defense from neutral. Gibby, your tail feathers are ruffled because people in KS don't challenge each other like I'm challenging you. You and your hostile little camp claim I was just some guy typing away and not involved and pressed me into giving you a credential that you only get if you're a DI Champ, DI coach or DI AA and of course now you tell me that doesn't matter and that I still don't know what I'm talking about. That's fine and about what I expect. I guess DI Champs, AAs and coaches can't compete with the vast knowledge that we have here from the KS wrestling intelligentsia. Just like Klemm didn't have squat to do with helping to develop the three NCAA finalists in 2 years during their HS years. By the way, if any of you can tell me about one other KS coach who has had more NCAA finalists in their career let alone two years, I'll retire from this board. It's ludicruous and insulting that Klemm isn't getting credit from some of you and it backs up my earlier statement that he was not well thought of by the KS wrestling intelligentsia who dissed him by leaving him off freestyle teams. This isn't about me but my opinion that KS needs to evolve and it's clear that some of you have big problems with change. Good. I'm happy I pushed you out of your comfort zones.

Gutwrench1,

It has been so long I thought you changed your handle or were having a coming out party.

Coach McCarthy

Gutwrench1 you almost brought a tear to my eye then i threw up you are a panzy, and how are the kc Mo kids so much better just because they whip up on the Kc area wrestlers, well that would be why they are so much ahead of the game their wrestling all the kids that get second and third place at state, lol keep on truckin.

Gutwrench1,

We are taking a dozen kids to Brute nationals this weekend. Also, I must get going we are having practice tonight. Who are you working with tonight to make them better wrestlers. This will be the 4th practice this week I have worked with kids in the Kansas City area. If you want to see heavy hands I am demonstrating the firemans tonight and need a partner. That would be a takedown feet to back.

Coach McCarthy

acbulldog-

Who are you to say anything about anyone? You have yet to leave your name and are either a washed up former wrestler, a JV wrestler, or a bad varsity wrestler because I remember you posted during a saturday of a two day tournament that Ark City was in. You of all people should shut your mouth.

Coach Klemm Never told the boys he was working with not to pin. I have seen him over and over show the "ultimate" pin and that was at Freestyle Practices.

Statistics Do Not Lie.

PREP Careers - Of complete wrestlers
Justin Dyer - 145-3 career - 73 pins over 50%
Joe Johnston - 160-12 career - 92 pins 57.5%
Shawn Bunch - 150-10 career - holds career takedowns, career nearfalls, and CAREER FALLS
Almost forgot:
Zach Roberson - 153-0 with just 109 Pins

Gutwrench, email me at TanMan567@hotmail.com, I want to know who you are

Gutwrench,

First of all, my best friend's name is in the wrestling Hall of Fame in Stillwater, and he never even wrestled in college, so being a D1 champ, coach, or AA is not a requirement for your name to be in the hall.

2nd- I agree with what Gibby said in support of Klemm. It doesn't matter what he did as a competitor, but as a coach- and I am certain that he was ONE contributor to the success of his former wrestlers.

3rd- I again ask the question, what have you done to solve this issue, besides posting here? Get involved with the athletes and work to get the change you would like to see.

4th- ACbulldog, Oak Park would have beat any team in the State of Kansas. I personally saw every team state champ wrestle this year, and no single team from Kansas would have given them a run. They were very impressive, especially from their feet (and they were missing 2 varsity wrestlers at Baldwin).

My only issue with you gutwrench is the fact that you lump all Kansas coaches/officials together and then degrade them. All you talk about is D1's, but the fact is the vast majority of our wrestlers are never going to attain that level of wrestling. We do the best we can for the wrestlers we have (because we are here for the athletes). Until you come coach at the High School level and try to get kids who have never wrestled before ready for varsity in 2-3 years I don't think you have much room for criticism. And if you can do better, do it.

gutwrench=hicks?

Gutwrench = Legend of wrestling Danny Hodge?

Well, whoever Gutwrench is, he's right. One of the biggest problems that Kansas wrestling has is the fact that it refuses to objectively look past its own borders. Perhaps if it did it would get better. Gutwrench, keep up the good work -- face it guys, if he didn't want to see it get better, he wouldn't bother, or did that not occur to anyone?

VS Vike coach -

I get a different impression......to me the message he originally sent was that we are doomed because Klemm left.....

VS Vike Coach-

I don't know what you mean by objectively looking past our own borders. I know that I, along with many of the coaches I am familiar with are willing to learn from anyone, from anywhere, as long as the technique is sound.

Coachtwink when did I ever say that oak park couldn't beat any of the teams in the state you might want to get your facts straight before you open your mouth.

I'm not denying that you are that forward thinking coachtwink. But you and I both know a lot who aren't, and that's the problem.

and ac...chill, will you?

Man, you all getting a little personal, Tanner now don't you hurt that boy when you find out who he is.....

Its hard to be good on top if your never there. You need to take them down first and with the option start now days, that even helps the guy good on his feet. Top wrestling in freestyle is important because any turn you get makes your opponent have to turn you or take you down twice to tie it.

Yes we do miss Klemm, but saying that the college coach's or high school coaches had nothing to do with this year's finalist is crazy. Klemm is good and will remain good because he is out there learning new stuff and polishing his old stuff, he goes to work and works hard at it just like a lot of coach's in Kansas do.

As for getting out of the Kansas area that is a KHSAAAHSAAAHSAAAAA problem.

Our coaches are some of the best in the nation and we are doing things to make them better, like the coach's camp going on at Hays during the Southern Plains Camp.
I don't think I have heard of any great wrestler who said I have had only one coach teach me everything I know about wrestling.

...To learn everything we must learn from everybody.

Most of all the kids have to have the interest, we can't force them to be good, it takes hard work. They have to want to practice and go above and beyond the average.

Its a team effort, just like it takes a village to raise a child it takes a family to create a Champion, and the Kansas Family of Wrestling is a darn good one to belong to...


Coach Peterman

AC,
I guess I must have misinterpreted your statement above.

Here Here coach peterson!

Coach Holmes:

Excuse me for asking, but how many high school State Champions did you produce while in Kansas?

Better yet, how many high school state placers did you develop?

Back in your home state of Iowa, with the exception of Sean Stender, it was out of state wrestlers (Gallick from Arizona, Johnston from Kansas and Perry from Oklahoma) who placed highest for your state universities at the NCAA tournament in St. Louis this past year.

Post Gable era, wrestling in the state of Iowa does not fair much, if any, better than Kansas. The last two NCAA Division I champions for any Iowa school was Cliff Moore from Iowa and Zach Roberson from Kansas. Let us not forget Cael Sanderson is from Utah.

In my humble opinion, Kevin Klemm and Wes Harding are both missed.

With all due respect, based on your coaching achievements, I do not believe any Kansas coaches need to listen to your gibberish.

AC quoted as saying:

"What are you talking about what did he do for them athletes they were already good fabby okay, your about dumb as all these other people talking this guy up like he's a savior."

To begin with - a grammar check. My corrections in ().

What are you talking about(?)(W)hat did he do for (those) athletes(?) (T)hey were already good (,) fabby (,) okay (!) (Y)ou(')re about (as) dumb as all these other people (,) talking this guy up like he's a savior.

First off, if you are going to reference to people as being "dumb", you might try not having 12 grammar errors within an approximate 40 word post.

Second, as for talking him up as if he were a savior? I don't see where I ever did that. In fact, I did acknowledge his accomplishments with excellent athletes.

I could have just as easily pointed out that his accomplishments with a handful (pretty big handful mind you) of athletes in a Metro (KCK and KCMO) well over 1 million. We could have expected more in a metro that size and a side of the metro more dominate didn't even come to his club. But what would that have proved?

It seems to me AC, the only hero worship going on in here is your 12 error posting in attempt to berate me (look it up in the town dictionary) in an effort to show intellectual superiority.

Tell you what, I'll come down to Ark City this weekend and you and I can have a battle of wits. I figure I'll have outmanned you by the time you supersize my fries. Now which side of town is McDonalds on? And please, make sure you wash your hands before you handle my food.

NEXT!

Richard -- so glad to see you're still alive....

And for the record, while I was unable to get any placewinners while I was in Kansas, in my first year back in Iowa, I had two, which was a first for my high school.

As for the rest, you're right for the moment. Unfortunatly, the best Iowa high school wrestlers are leaving the state. Both of the four-time champs that were crowned this past season along with another top recruit are all going to Virginia Tech where Tom Brands (hey, he's from Iowa!) just finished his first year as head coach.

It is unfortunate that all three of our DI programs are struggling right now. On the other hand, it's nice to be somewhere that at least HAS a DI program as opposed to....well, whatever.

Thanks for your comments Richard; now get back to getting people fired, or whatever it is you do. And, of course, you have a nice day.