interesting point i wasnt aware of that ruling (article 14), so st. francis couldnt have parsons come to a tournament because its more than 500 road miles...?

perhaps its time for a change and have that rule amended. who would you lobby to have article 14 changed?

its seems having such a rule like article 14 only hurts kansas wrestling.

you would think you would want whats best for your athletes. sometimes i dont understand thier (KSHSAA's) logic

to be the best you have to wrestle the best. but traveling always involves the issue of money, right now with the state budget crisis, there is no way that schools could even begin to fund such excursions to distant tournaments.

does anyone know bill gates personally?

nonetheless, it will be an interesting matchup between these two teams, i have seen a couple of ponderosa's wrestlers compete during the summer, and have competed against them during the summer. they are a respectable team, but so is hoxie. to bad you couldnt make it a double dual or a quad and invite one or two more teams, say like manhatten, or St. francis or norton? and possibly host it in colby at the center?

Tuff,

I read ART 14 that if the school is within 500 miles of the KS border. To me that means a team in Eastern KS can invite a CO team as long as it is within 500 miles of the Western border.

However, I do agree that it would be a good idea to allow teams to travel a bit farther than currently allowed. The only issue would be the funding part.

Tom G your interpretation of the rule is correct--a Kansas school could invite out-of-state schools that are a mximum of 500 miles from any border of Kansas, or travel a maximum of 500 miles in any direction from the Kansas border.

thanks for the clarification, so any schools within 500 miles from any border in kansas. so concievebly the farthest reaches of this limit would be utah, south dakota, wyoming, illinois, iowa, minnesota, texas, new mexico, arkansas, tennessee, kentucky, mississippi and possibly louisana?

problem is, finding schools that actually have programs within these borders. but you could have schools from say, memphis, st. louis, denver, lincoln, little rock, oklahoma city, dallas, cheyenne, rapid city...but would be out of reach from cities such as salt lake, chicago st. paul, alberqueque(sp).

now with these schools i'm sure you could have a great tournament, but would it measure up to the caliber of the iron man, or other eastern tournaments?

but that 500 mile limitation doesnt get to the big east where apparently competition is a little stiffer, or the far west either.

i would be curious to know. why the 500 mile limit?

does anyone know or heard of any schools from say tennessee or arkansas or from the farther reaches of the 500 mile limit that have come to kansas to compete?

Ponderosa results from the Reno, Nevada Tournament of Champions held December 19 & 20, 2003.

103 lbs. – Nick Turco; Sophomore; 2-2 – DNP
112 lbs. – Jake Ellis; Junior; 3-2 – DNP
119 lbs. – Jesse Snider; Freshman; 4-2 – DNP
125 lbs. – Marcus Nelson; Sophomore; 5-2 – DNP
130 lbs. – Paul Meyer; ???; 0-2 – DNP
135 lbs. – Buster Snider; Senior; 4-2 – DNP
140 lbs. – Patrick Armstrong; Freshman; 3-2 – DNP
145 lbs. – Alex Etzen; Junior; 3-2 – DNP
152 lbs. – Ian Heinisch; Freshman; 4-2 – DNP
160 lbs. – Tyler Rinaldis; Senior: 5-1 – 2nd
171 lbs. – Tommy Pasque; Junior; 4-3 – 6th
189 lbs. – Kaylon Ross; Junior; 1-2 – DNP
215 lbs. – Gary Haynes; Senior; 1-2 – DNP
275 lbs. – Garrett Crosier; Senior; 2-2 – DNP

At 130 lbs. Ponderosa had a change in their lineup from the Ironman Tournament, replacing Kurt Barnhart with Paul Meyer.

As best as I could determine, there were approximately eighty two (82) teams entered in the high school division, from California, Oklahoma, Montana, New Mexico, Utah, etc.!

Ponderosa did not finish in the top five(5).

Copied below is a recent article regarding Ponderosa High School and their coach.
Ponderosa High School Wrestling Article

A Recipe for Success
By John Olivas

Little did Tim Ottmann know that what began in Albuquerque NM would bring him to this place; a place atop the 2003-04 Class 5A team rankings. You see his team is the defending Class 5A state champs. But that’s not all. Ottmann is at the helm of one of the most respected high school wrestling programs in the state of Colorado.

What Tim Ottmann, as a coach and man, brings to this Mustang team is consistency; consistency coupled with the desire to be better than your best. When asked about his teams recent success he modestly reply’s “I couldn’t do what I do without my great assistant coaches, I delegate a lot and that makes my job much easier, plus the kids are great - they really wanna be here (in the wrestling room).”

Tim's love affair with wrestling began back in his youth in Albuquerque NM. “My dad was the head football coach and a wrestling ref, I guess I kinda followed his lead,” said Ottmann. As a boy he could be found on the football field or on the wrestling mat, something that continued on into his college days, "I wasn't good enough to wrestle in college, but I did ref, " he said, “I always knew that I wanted to become a coach.”

After graduating from the University of NM with a degree in physical education in 1983 Ottmann secured a job at Burgess high school in El Paso TX where he coached both football and wrestling till 1990. While looking for a location to settle in and start his family coach Ottmann found an ad for an open coaching spot in Parker, CO. He interviewed with Duane Knox, then coach and AD at Douglas County high school, and the rest is history.

Well there are a room full of wrestlers, supportive fans, and parents that are glad that Mr. Knox had the foresight to hire Tim. Ponderosa has won three state titles the first in 97, then 98, and more recently 2003. What goes on in the Ponderosa wrestling room to produce those kinds of results? Short answer, it begins long before they step in the room as a high school wrestler. It begins with the Ponderosa feeder programs. Coach Ottmann is very involved with the local area youth wrestlers, “I run a once a week practice for the ‘Cardinal’ team,” The Cardinal team, he explains, are the beginning wrestlers. “Once a week is enough for them,” he said, “they see limited action during the season but they keep on coming back!” The Ponderosa varsity wrestlers run the “Gold” team, made up from the more experienced youth wrestlers. The varsity wrestlers as well as Ottmann and his assistants, are on hand at Sunday’s Western Suburban League wrestling tournaments to coach the kids. “I think it’s a great way for our varsity wrestlers to give back to the community and it gets them some coaching experience,” remarked Ottmann, “it also is a great way for the younger kids to get to know me.”

This season the Mustangs added a new twist into their out of state schedule. In addition to being regulars at the highly touted Reno Tournament of Champions, held annually in Reno NV, Ponderosa made the trek back east to Ohio to attend a little get together at Walsh Jesuit high school, more aptly known as the Ironman. The Ironman is definitely one of the toughest high school tournaments in the entire United States. There you’ll find the likes of powerhouse high school teams Blair Academy and St. Edwards high. “There are no easy draws at that tournament (the Ironman),” said Ottmann, “you could draw the number 8 seed and find out that he is a 2 time state champ.” It was a humbling experience for the Mustang’s as most went two and out, but the experience was worth its weight in gold. “The level of high school wrestling is much higher back east, the kids are bigger, stronger, disciplined, and much more physical,” said coach Ottmann, “my wrestlers now know what’s out there and know that they have to really push to reach that level.”

What can Colorado high school teams do to compete at that level? Coach Ottmann’s solution to the problem is rather simple, “Colorado needs to focus on finding tougher competition. We can’t compete with the out of state kids because of the (high) level of competition they see week in and week out.” He went on to add “maybe we should start our freestyle season a little later, say in April, and make our focus Fargo (USA wrestling’s national championships). We’ll get our kids more exposure that way and they’ll really see some quality competition.

In wrestling, as in life, things are not always easy. Last summer Adam Meyer, a former Ponderosa varsity standout, fell asleep at the wheel of his automobile and was killed when his vehicle veered off the road and crashed. Naturally the whole Ponderosa organization was devastated but their response was no less than grand. The team organized the Macedog foundation. Macedog was Adams nickname and the foundation was created to not only lovingly preserve his memory but to help local area wrestlers and programs. The first thing the foundation did was to purchase a team bus for the Ponderosa high school team. “We were at the Oklahoma State Team camp last summer, we’ve always rented vans to travel to those types of events,” said Ottmann, “and then we got the idea for the bus.” Macy and Suki Meyers, Adam’s parents, organized several fundraising events to fund the foundation, and the Ponderosa HS team was the benefactor, via a 47 passenger charter bus. “Ironic,” said coach Ottmann, “we bought the bus, which just happened to be cardinal and gold (in color), from a company called Rambling Express, so all we had to do was to change the name Rambling to Macedog, and it was a fit. I can’t think of a better way to keep Adams memory alive”

With two tough out of state tournaments under their belts, one at which Ottmann saw two of his wrestlers place, you would think that the Mustangs might be somewhat complacent. Not so, “we have the Arvada West tourney coming up and the Top of the Rockies is always one of the toughest anywhere,” he remarked. When asked about great individual efforts he was quick to praise 160 pound Tito Rinaldis. Tito did not begin wrestling till his freshman year. The season high for him thus far is his second place finish at the Reno Tournament of Champions. “Quite an accomplishment for a guy who got a late start in the sport,” noted Ottmann.

As for his team’s outlook this year? “I am not so much worried about our freshman,” said Ottmann, “they have all been wrestling for quite awhile and they know how to handle themselves. We need to have our JV wrestlers step up. They know what they need to work on and they need to stay focused on improving. We won’t win state with one or two champs, to place high we’ll need guys to come through on the backside of the bracket and score some points.” No doubt the Ponderosa wrestling team will be prepared to face the challenge.

Colorado Top 10 Team & Top 4 Individual Rankings
By: Tim Yount - On The Mat Rankings
Latest Release 12-29-2003
Week 3 Team and Individual Rankings

5A
Top 10 Teams
Colorado Class Rankings – released 12/29/2003
1-Ponderosa
2-Pomona
3-Standley Lake
4-Grand Junction
5-Fruita Monument
6-Legacy
7-Thompson Valley
8-Loveland
9-Brighton
10-Rocky Mountain

Colorado Class Rankings – released 12/29/2003
Contact: Tim Yount onthemat@msn.com;
Phone: 719-660-0628; 719-488-0909
Fax: 719-488-0909

Class 5A

103lbs
1-Gabe Burak, Coronado
2-Trevor Schuch, Standley Lake
3-Geoff Meng, Monarch
4-Rodney Padilla, Chaparral

112lbs
1-Jake Ellis, Ponderosa
2-Eddie Lopez, Legacy
3-Chris Trujillo, Thompson Valley
4-Matt Alvarado, Lincoln

119lbs
1-Abe Alvarado, Lincoln
2-Chris Martinez, Brighton
3-Josh Galvan, Doherty
4-Steve Reynolds, Grand Junction Central
5-Billy Wright, Loveland

125lbs
1-Pablo Valenzuela, Pomona
2-Brett Tellis, Cherry Creek
3-Matt Martinez, Standley Lake
4-Marcus Nelson, Ponderosa

130lbs
1-Mike White, Brighton
2-Noomis Jones, Pomona
3-Colton Casady, Standley Lake
4-Ryan Morris, Doherty

135lbs
1-Kenny Hashimoto, Thornton
2-Paul Dack, Pomona
3-Trent Girtman, Grand Junction
4-Buster Snider, Ponderosa

140lbs
1-Dan Intlekofer, Rocky Mountain
2-Nick Buschman, Arvada
3-Tremaine Watson, Grand Junction
4-Bryan Zerr, Regis

145lbs
1-Kevin Lucero, Pomona
2-Henry Kofa, Denver East
3-Gary Mahalic, Legacy
4-Pete Morgan, Doherty

152lbs
1-Troy Lussenhop, Loveland
2-Ty Bratcher, Grand Junction
3-Kyle Morrow, Dakota Ridge
4-Tom Woodward, Fruita

160lbs
1-Caleb Van Vorst, Wheat Ridge
2-Matt Nissen, Standley Lake
3-Tito Rinaldis, Ponderosa
4-Rodney McConnell, Fort Collins
5-Tony Davis, Thompson Valley

171lbs
1-Ryan Budd, Grandview
2-Josh Pittsinger, Grand Junction
3-Vinny Pacifico, Northglenn
4-Henry Nelson, Fort Collins

189lbs
1-Kyle Sand, Arvada West
2-Tim Sexton, Arvada
3-Cody Kincaid, Legacy
4-Derek Whitman, Poudre

215lbs
1-Tyler Ryan, Fruita
2-Andrew Garcia, Loveland
3-Dan Trujillo, Thompson Valley
4-Juan Huerta, Thornton

275lbs
1-Sam Safken, Fruita
2-Jeff Rickard, Standley Lake
3-Cody Rivera, Pomona
4-Eric Tonkin, Poudre

I think it would be a shame if the highly touted Western Kansas school would lose to Ponderosa!!!

They only have four guys ranked in the state of COLORADO, and only two of those are in the top three!!!!

We surely don't want a state like Colorado thinking they are a better wrestling state than us!

They actually have 9 or 10 ranked in the top 6. You have to have a subscription to the rankings to see the top ten every week, but you get the top 4 for free at coloradowrestling.com.

To: Parker, CO

Kindly answer a few questions for me?

1. Why would one of the largest schools in Colorado, located in a very affluent suburb South of Denver, with a seemingly bottomless wrestling budget, schedule a dual with one of Kansas smaller schools?

2. If Ponderosa is attempting to schedule out of state teams in order to improve their level of wrestling competition, would not a dual with El Reno, Oklahoma; MidWest City, Oklahoma; or Ponca City, Oklahoma; be more in order?

3. Is it true the Colorado High School Activities Association recently tightened athletic eligibility requirements for transfer students due to the aggressive recruiting practices of either Ponderosa or their wrestling booster club?

4. Is it true the Colorado High School Activities Association several years ago changed the rules regarding the use of asthma inhalers due to the aggressive use of the devices by Ponderosa?

I have several friends living in Douglas County, (Castle Rock and Sedalia) and Brighton areas of Colorado, and they have provided me with the above information. As I understand it, Brighton is a competitor high school, and the statements received from that source may be negatively biased.

I thought I would ask for clarification.

I don't know if you're trying to take a jab at Ponderosa, so I'm not going to spend too much time answering these questions.

1&2: They were going to be in Kansas anyways, everyone said Hoxie was #1. If someone would have said Norton or Garden City or Manhattan was the best team in Kansas, you can bet Ponderosa would be dualing them instead.

3&4: Everyone will get a kick out of that. I think it's funny that your friends believe that is true. Does it happen to be the Hayes family that you know?

To: Parker, CO

Just curious, how many wrestlers does Ponderosa have out?

Around 40.

i'm sure either bill johnson or larry gabel would love to have an opportunity to dual ponderosa, if they were approached, think ponderosa would interested?

I'm assuming you mean next season. Colorado has a points system that limits how many events can be scheduled, and they are at that limit right now.

I think it will definetely be possible. For the first time ever, Ponderosa has a little breathing room when it comes to scheduling duals. In the past, they were required to dual all league teams, and they didn't have room to dual anyone else with their tournament schedule due to the state's point system.

As I understand it, this season they divided the league into two divisions, each of which has one or two less teams than the entire league had before. Now Ponderosa has the real option of dualing non-league opponents. They will have two this season including Hoxie, but it would have only been one if a league dual Ponderosa was required to wrestle hadn't been cancelled.

Next season I don't think that same dual will be cancelled, and so Ponderosa will have one dual that they can schedule against a non-league opponent. As far as I'm concerned, that one dual should be used dualing the best team in Kansas as long as Ponderosa continues to make a trip to Kansas every year. Since Kansas is our neighbor we might as well use the opportunity to create a little Kansas/Colorado rivalry.

I spoke with larry gabel briefly, he said that colorado and kansas are under similar rules regarding how many "points" a team can have durning the year, i.e. dual (1pt), double dual (2pts), quad, (3pts), tourney(4pts) etc. kansas and colorado have a maximum 30 alotted points per season.

question is how many points does ponderosa have? could they allow or afford one or two more "points" or duals? if so pehaps a dual could materalize? maybe during the same time they come to kansas to dual hoxie? i think even though ponderosa is tough, it would be exciting to see a double dual with st. francis or even a quad with norton thrown into the mix, of course i dont know what norton's postion is, or if they even would be interested, or what thier status is on points, or if they are even open of the same thursday as hoxie and st. francis.

but wouldnt be an exciting match up?! to see perhaps the top 3 teams in 321-a,(hoxie, St. francis & norton) mix it up with the #1 team in colorado? and even get goodland or colby to broadcast it on the air!

Larry said they are under the 30 points and could do this, (possibly dual ponderosa) can ponderosa accomodate 1 or 2 more points on thier schedule?

its still 3 weeks until until the scheduled matchup. what would it take to get it scheduled?
i would love to see this materialize. and it would be great for n.w. kansas wrestling. i'm sure the civic center would be packed in colby that night to see it!

I don't think it's possible for this season, although if it were, you could probably count Ponderosa in. As it is, Ponderosa is at its point limit, and I can't imagine any way around it without dropping something else.

If you want, you can have Mr. Gabel contact Tim Ottmann at (303) 387 4000 to discuss this further. I'm sure Tim would love to do it and would try to make it happen if at all possible, but I honestly don't think it's a possibility at this point.

Yes, it would be awesome.

that's too bad...

i'll pass that info on, and see what happens. if its not possible, then next year! it will be an even better match up next year!

but it if happens, perhaps we'll see you at the showdown at sundown... :p

If that’s the case they want to duel the best Kansas has to offer why not put on a duel tournament with five of the best of the best teams at site to be determined by the coaches involved. Hoxie, Norton, lets see Manhattan maybe, Hutch and why not throw Garden City in there. That would be a pretty good cross section of the state. Everyone would get five matches and then we could see what we all are made of.