Posted on Thu, Jan. 26, 2006
Key title step awaits Carroll, South
BY JEFFREY LUTZ Wichita Eagle correspondent
If South beats Bishop Carroll in their wrestling dual tonight at South, the Titans will be all but a lock to win the City League title.
South has already completed the toughest portion of its schedule, and after tonight the Titans' remaining opponents have a 4-10 league record.

If Carroll wins, a title for the Eagles is anything but a certainty. The toughest portion of their schedule is yet to come.
"We still have to face Northwest and Kapaun (Mount Carmel)," Carroll coach Jamie Finkeldei said. "But in many respects (tonight) will decide the league championship."
Carroll has a different-looking team than the one that beat South handily in a tournament at the Valley Center tournament in early December.
The Eagles are battling several injuries. Kyle Detmer, No. 3 in Class 5A at 130 pounds, is out until regionals with a knee injury.
Heavyweight Nick Hicks, who beat South's Xavier Louis, the No. 2 heavyweight in 6A, will also miss the dual.
South is a different team, too. At least in attitude. "The training intensity level has definitely risen since that loss," South coach Mike Church said. "I think that loss was the best thing that happened to us all year, motivation-wise."
The two matches to watch are South's Mike Creekmore against Jordan Keller at 112 pounds and South's Bishop Price against Tom McDonald at 135. All four are ranked in the top six in their weight class.
Church isn't looking ahead, but knows the Titans will be in the driver's seat with a win tonight.
"The City League tournament is still a vital part to winning the title," he said. "But we have to win the dual first to even think about winning the City League, period. We will focus on one step at a time.
"If we win this dual, I don't think we will lose a dual the rest of the season."

I only put this on here because it was page 6 in the Wichita Eagle Sports section today. You can't tell me there is anything more important going on in the world of sports in Wichita tonight.

Good luck 2nite Michael. Let em know we're pullin for em... even here in Montana.

this is the line-up for tonight after receiving the weigh in sheet.

103 Demarcus Smith v. John Keller #1
112 Mike Creekmore #4 v. Jordan Keller #5
119 Brandon Francis v. Isaac Johnston
125 Jerry McAfee v. BJ Axman
130 Dan Munoz #4 v. Bret Befort
135 Bishop Price #2 v. Tom McDonald #2
140 Mike Foxworthy v. Mitch Arnold #4
145 Alex Patrick v. Tanner Cody
152 Tatum Flores v. David Loos #1
160 John Fountain/ v. Thomas Ronck
171 Mike Webb v. Ben Meyer #4
189 Zerrell Williams v. Jacob Cole
215 Andrew Krummrey v. Nick Henicker
275 Xavier Louis #2 v. David Goodsell

If these line-ups hold true and there is no bumping involved, it will be a fun dual. We have been known to hold true to our line-ups until bumped against I believe in having faith in your #1 at each weight.

Caroll 36 Wichita South 30

Any individual results bcharrington?

103 pin carroll 6-0
112 8-5 south 6-3
119 10-2 carroll 10-3
125 pin carroll 16-3
130 pin south 16-9
135 pin south. 16-15 where was mcdonald?
140 pin carroll 22-15
145 pin carroll 28-15
152 pin carroll 34-15
160 1-1 2ot 33*-18
171 11-9 south 33-21
189 10-4 south 33-24
215 3-1 carroll 36-24
275 inj def south 36-30

*south penatly point against carroll

the only changes from the line-up posted above were that arnold bumped to 145 and the carroll's jv (i think?) 140 wrestled 140. and mcdonald didnt wrestle.

mcdonald was hurt I dont think South knew that going in, Arnold wrestled up and pinned his kid at 145, at 171 Meyer got behind and had the guy on his back forever but they never slapped the mat. Most of the other matches went with the lineups shown on earlier posts.

Was good coverage on the television sports last night, saw it on local NBC and ABC didn't see it on CBS.

Nope... He (FINK) did not tell me until the 130 pound match that McDonald was not going to wrestle. It didnt matter anyway, I was not going to bump regardless. I have a belief that you put your best 14 that you have that day out there and you tell them they can win. If you bump because you don't think you can win at a weight, what precedent does that set. You are telling at lease one kid you can't win????? I did that in a dual earlier this season and felt horrible afterwards and I don't know if I could do it again.

They could not beat us if they didnt bump though so it was a good move on their part. I said I was going to hold my line-up and I did. Did I get outcoached...maybe...but I slept good last night. In college wrestling, you rarely ever see a coach bump an athlete. They put 10 guys out there to wrestle. I want to have that mentality!

The stands were packed and it was another great night of wrestling. Both fans were into the match and all the athletes were having a great time. Even though I wish things would have been different...it was another amazing night that I was glad I was a part of!

P.S. And the ref never slapped the mat because his shoulders were not touching!!!! Chad Harris did a wonderful job last night and at this point, even though he needs to worry less about where I am standing (haha) is the best ref I have seen all year long.

Wrestling is wrestling! I was not making excuses.. I just said, I was not bumping! Maybe my views will change somedays... but I want the key matches to happen.. Not bump the good ones away from each other. The goal is always to win, but I want to win with my 14 best wrestlers. Not 12 or 13 and some J.V. kid who is a sacrificial lamb as a great coach "Todd Porter" once told me! haha!

I have read with interest Coach Church's view about bumping.
His responses make it sound like he has taken the high road based on his principles which insinuates that Coach Finkeldei has not.
The first question I would have is "what is the goal of wrestling a dual between two teams?" Is the goal to win? The answer to those questions makes a difference in how you would approach this subject.
In any other sport making adjustments is part of the game. Coaches are not looked down on for making adjustments to give their team the best chance to win. In fact, a coach who did not adjust and cost his team a victory would be criticized.
Also, many times I have bumped good wrestlers up so that they could get better competition. But, I usually only did this if I felt it would not affect the outcome of winning a dual.
Comparing high school duals to college duals I think is like comparing apples to oranges. One reason coaches don't bump in college is there generally are good wrestlers at every weight. There is also a greater weight spread between classes. So, bumping a good wrestler up against a bigger good wrestler would be more of a risk.
I also enjoyed where Coach Church said nobody remembers who won the City League Title but who wins the State Title. That was the same thing I use to say when South would beat us almost every year in duals but we would beat them at State.

Coach Watkins...

I never one time said Fink took any inappropriate road to win! I actually told the paper last night he did what he had to do and he got the job done! I say great job to B.C. for beating us. Also, you are right in the fact that we beat your team every year in duals but you found a way to win 2 state titles above us. haha!
Great state showing will erase any bad memories on the season for me. If you end the year 7-0 or especially 4-0 that's all that matters. It was fun last night and my main point was that I just wish we could have done it straight up. However, they beat us and that's it. I also look at the fact the McDonald and Detmer were out of the line-up as well as Mr. Hicks transferring to Goddard. I do remember in December only winning three matches against them and getting beat by about 30. So I am confident we got better and that is all that matters.

FEBRUARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Coach Church

I agree with your "not bumping" philosophy in that you are telling one wrestler that you don't believe they can win their match. But it is not always a JV sacrificial lamb that is being sent out on the mat. One year when I was in high school, myself and another wrestler were back and forth about every week as to who was the varsity wrestler at 135, our coach would put in whoever lost at 140 and bump everyone else up and take out our 189 lber. The 189 lber wasn't very good and our 171 lber was better than him even at 189. So this worked to our advantage to actually have our best 14 wrestlers. But it did also make the 189 lber feel that the coach didn't believe in him.

Surely you cannot be serious about Hicks going to Goddard. Is this a legal transfer? Is it a transfer or a move? In other words, will he be eligible to compete this semester? If he is, wow, that would definately swing it for Goddard and no one should be able to stop them. Is that fair? Of course not but neither is life right. Goddard already has more than most could ask for. To get Hicks would definately be early Christmas. I have heard of many examples where a kid transfered to Carroll or Kapaun but not many where they transfered from Carroll or Kapaun. Can that be right?

I believe the Hicks' currently reside in Goddard school district as the younger boy is already attending there.

No, he will not be wrestling. I think he tried but the "rumore" KSHSAA did not O.K. it. Rule says you can not move to be eligible. You will not see Hicks on the mat ever again according to some close reliable sources in Goddard!

So relax Coach...

The coaches at south must be doing a great job, they had several freshman and sophmores listed on their varsity lineup, carrol also has alot of good young wrestlers. This could be a great mathup for along time to come. Good luck to south the rest of the season, after the gwal tourney atleast. And if your were in the carrol bleachers you were quite sure of the pin at 171, sometimes our eyes play tricks on you when your rooting for your team.