I agree but as a fan I still like seeing all the wrestlers in the same place it is awesome.

Oh yes I agree with you 100% that the state tourneys are great being together the way they are. The reason I am for it is because the kids love it. It is exciting for them and they will remember it the rest of their lives. I agree with you 100%, I didn't mean to convey otherwise there. I was responding from an earlier post that insinuated that 5 and 6A were not worthy for some reason and that classes should be combined. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

No problem

I personally think that the classes should remain how they are even though we have 4 state champs at every weight. I also think that their should be districts, regionals, and state. So there would only be 8 man brackets at each. I think that there should only be 4 placers at each weight instead of six. That way there is more prestige in placing. It also makes for a total of 16 placers instead of 24, and would make the earlier rounds a lot more meaningful. But that is just my opinion.

RJW- you don't see the finals because you're coaching, and you're in charge of a team. Keep in mind, there are 7,000 people who ARENT in charge of a team, and are fully capable of watching all the matches mentioned. Also, many wrestlers have friends from different classes that they would like to watch wrestle. Just because you can't see the excitement doesn't mean you should spoil it for the other 6,999 of us.

And forget all this prestige stuff. You name me one state champ that didn't deserve it. Tell me one person in ANY class who won state, yet is a fish. You can't do it. Just because there are less teams does not make it dishonorable.

And finally, to whoever said Wichita and Topeka are the only places big enough to hold the tournament is nuts! Salina has the Bicentennial Center, Lawrence has Allen Fieldhouse, and Manhattan has Bramlage Collesium. I don't know about the other sites, but Bramlage holds 13,000, which is almost twice that of Wichita. I also believe all three cities have more than enough hotel room.

However, it would indeed be hard to find a place that would do the so-called "thankless jobs." I think that that aspect of the Wichita state tournament is covered beautifully, and we should all thank the parents and fans who help run the tournament. The Collesium staff may be full of jerks, but those who run the tournament do an outstanding job.

top six placers is a good format for state. Having only the top four doesnt make it any more prestigious, it just screws over the kids that worked that hard to fight back all the way from the first match at state to get that far. Having top six insures that good kids that didnt win impossible matches in the front door can have a chance medaling.

sorry if i came off a little offensive phil gam. I appreciate ur opinion.

There are too many state qualifiers in 5A and 6A. With only 32 schools in each classification why would you qualify half of the participants for state? Conduct two 16 team regionals and have 8 man brackets at state or combine 5A and 6A so they are closer in size to 4A and 321A. Kansas only has 2.25 million people but we crown four state champs at each weight. That is too many. Compare that to OK, IA, PA etc. In New York they only crown 1 champ. Less participants would make the venue issue more easily addressed. Of course, the KSHSAA wouldn't make as much money so I am crazy for even bringing it up!

"combine 5A and 6A so they are closer in size to 4A and 321A. Kansas only has 2.25 million people but we crown four state champs at each weight. That is too many. Compare that to OK, IA, PA etc. In New York they only crown 1 champ. Less participants would make the venue issue more easily addressed."

i agree 100%

Most states have shoulder to shoulder weigh-ins also. Should we do that also?
The point with Wichita is they have hosted the tournament for many years and it isn't good enough for what the kids deserve. Tournament officals have had the chance to fix many of the problems we all have discussed. They have failed. The contract to the Kansas Coliseum is up. Now is our chance to make things better. 4A in Salina would be better than now. The 64 4A teams could fill the Bi-Centennial Center and make for an exciting wrestling atmosphere. I will vote for this.

The great thing about keeping all classes in one venue is it creates an atmosphere of magnificence and accomplishment. Wrestlers and coaches may not care about the other classes, but the fans would be missing out. Let's face it, wrestling is not a spectator sport, but the state tourny brings out people that haven't watched wrestling all year. WE NEED FANS. You simply can not afford to lesson the event by fragmenting the classes. Lots of kids get turned on to wrestling there, the media is there, how many would show up to watch a minor state tourny if they had no personal interest. The 4A,5A, and 6A puts wrestling on the map for at least one weekend. If you want to move it, move them all to one place.

Coach Beime I see you say you were a wrestler that didnt like them put together. Who did you wrestle for just wondering?

Prant-
I 100% believe that there is tons of prestige in winning state or placing at state at all classes in Kansas and am totally against combining classes. I'm not putting down 5-6A at all, but I don't like the way the State tourneys are set up. I realize that some fans like having the ability to watch the three classes together, but the mess for coaches and wrestlers is not worth it to me. When the KSHSAA proves that it can run a quality event that isn't a big cluster, maybe I'll chang by mind, but right now I am 100% for the 4A having our own tourney in Salina or someplace like that.
Wouldn't it be nice to have a tourney where the presentation of awards is appreciated, the team scores are posted, there is hospitality, organization, and people running the tourney who respect and understand the great accomplishments of our wrestlers???

What frustrates me about this thread - and I appreciate Mr. Phillips keeping us on point - is the singular blinders people have for their situation today. The focus needs to be on what is best for Kansas wrestling, not for the individual classes.

You cannot look at the solution as your situation today (what class you currently inhabit) just thru those glasses. With four new 4A/5A schools opening in KC metro by 2007/08 and the population growth of the Speedway development what ripple effect will that have? With the depopulation of western Kansas what ripple effect will that have? Just because you are a certain class today does not guarantee you will be there in five years (with exceptions on the two spectrums I concede.) We need to focus the discussion and solution as a whole.

That being said my bias is that you get a bigger bang for your buck by bringing as many classes together in a single venue. I believe we need to look for solutions as a whole rather than going our own separate ways. We need...we must come together as a community to elevate the sport singularly - not as separate classes. Only then can we promote and pass the Dual State proposal. Only then can we begin to overcome Title IX issues and provide more opportunities for our sons (and daughters) to compete in Kansas college programs. But, I believe, we need to do this as a cohesive unit and separate state venues do not take us down the path. Instead, I believe, it will take us farther apart from the goals we need to concentrate on.

Let's get past petty issues as Point standings and Hospitality rooms and concentrate on expanding and strengthening Kansas wrestling.

just my opinion....

I wrestled for Spring Hill (4a) from 95-99' and really appreciated having the state tournament in wichita. Having 3 classes wrestle in the same venue was tremendous! There were excellent matches over on the 5a and 6a mats that i wouldn't have missed for the world. There were plenty of matches that i was too busy to watch........but just having the oppurtunity to watch was great. I still go to the state tournament in wichita just so i can see some great wrestling through all the classes. I remember stepping out on the mat (my first time)at the collesium and feeling overpowered with pride and nerves just by the atmosphere....of having several thousand fans watch you and a couple hundred good wrestlers work their butt off to earn a title. I am a rule 10 coach (dollar coach) at spring hill and just want to beg the powers to be NOT to split 4a up from 5a and 6a.

Also i agree that the wichita mob squad can be compromising to wrestlers, fans, and coaches but i believe its for good reason. At state, there are too many fans and wrestlers (who aren't about to wrestle) who are down at the mats watching the wrestling up close. These guys create part of the cluster that the state tournament has. I believe if the fans would just stay off the stairways (and in the stands) and in their seats (not by the mats) that the mob squad would be a little nicer to us all.

Overtime,
I believe he wrestled for Atwood from 1988-1991 who went to the Hays State Tournament.

I am willing to support the advancement of wrestling in all classes in Kansas, but I don't think you do that by having state for 456A at the same site. We do that when we wrestle other classes at places like Beliot, Newton, Liberal, and other tournaments all year. I like the opportunity to wrestle good wrestlers in other classes, and think all coaches should continue to fight for the advancement of Kansas Wrestling. We CAN do that without having our state tournaments at the same site. People like Coach Baker at Hoxie help advance Kansas Wrestling and they participate in a state tourney outside of the Wichita mess. Saying our push to split the 456A state is only looking out for our class is not true and we will continue to fight for wrestling in Kansas and world wide whether we have 456A state together or not!!!
The issue is and will always be the inability of the KSHSAA to run a quality State event with the huge numbers present at the combined 456A tournaments.

Just another perspective. Many wrestlers and their parents who have come up through the kids program have made wonderful, long-standing friendships over the years with kids who end up in different classes at high school. To me it is a wonderful opportunity to see as many of them as possible when they earn the honor of wrestling at State. I'm just sorry we can't also see the 3-2-1A kids as well. I understand Hays has a great thing going, and I wouldn't say others should try to disrupt something so successful that everyone seems very happy with, but maybe the Hays people could offer some valuable advice on how to be as successful with the 4A, 5A and 6A tournament. I like the suggestion from Iowa about running an all 4-A round, then an all 5-A round, etc. That would actually give the teams and coaches opportunity to sit back and watch some of these matches. The Coliseum has many faults, but lets find ways to solve those facility and personnel issues without taking the kids apart. I often feel like I have ten sons when watching a tournament due to how important these kids become to each other and each other's families. This is a credit to wrestling and the kids and parents involved. PLEASE don't break the tournaments up!!!!!!!

Mom,
Wichita has had their chance.

Coach Beim if it is true that you went to Attwood and you wrestled in the 321A tourney then you really dont know what it is like to be a wrestler in the wichita tourney. I took an awful lot of kids to that tourney in both six A and five A and they were just wide eyed excited about it. Maybe you dont get that way in front of all those people with all that stuff going on but they thought they were in the big time and sadly it was as close as a lot of them ever got to the big time in anything. It is just a different perspective then you get at Hays. Hey I love the 321A deal i wrestled in it long ago and coached in it several times and it is wonderful buttt. not for everything.