Dear Les:

The Ark Valley League is comprised of:
Arkansas City - 5a - 18 Titles
Campus
Derby - 6A - 4 Titles
El Dorado
Hutchinson - 6A - 4 Titles
McPherson
Newton - 5A - 5 Titles
Winfield

The Ark Valley League has a total of 31 KSHSAA Wrestling State Championships!

Not to throw a wrench in all the statistics that we are all pulling out, but I'm thining the person who originally posted this forum was talking about this year or perhaps in the last couple of years. No one really cares what was happening 10-15-20 years ago as that has no bearing on today. Perhaps the NWKL was the toughest 8 years ago. But what about today?

Nigel, your probably right. The original thread was meant to ask what is the toughest leage today. The response is still NWKL, no doubt about it. Maybe not next year but it is today and it has been in the past. The idea behind posting past results helps to show a trend that league dominance does not usually change. This helps to prove the point that the NWKL is the toughest league, yesterday and today and probably in the future.

Les Brown,

Norton was a member of the MCL beginning with the 1976-77 school year; meaning that their last year of membership in the NWKL was 1975-76.

Boss - Thanks for the information, it is appreciated.

Mr. Salyer - Likewise.

not today - If my tally is correct that makes 31 team titles and 268 individual state champions. Certainly impressive numbers for the Ark Valley League. Were there other schools that exited that league throughout the course of time that would have added to the tally?

Nigel - I too felt the intent of the initial topic dealt with the near term. But discussion seemed to turn toward a historical perspective when people began talking about 4 titles in the last 5 years, etc. And "not today" took it to the long term with his/her assertion that the Ark Valley had higher totals.

Out of curiosity, is it coincidence your time perspective seems to match that of Abilene's and the NCKL's impressive rise to power in wrestling at the state level?

I will dispute your comment that "No one really cares what was happening 10-15-20 years ago....".

It is my opinion prior success is needed to keep the next generation interested in the sport. Ten years from now folks will be sitting in the local Abilene tavern talking about how great that team was back in 2003 when Abilene won their 3rd team title. And, hopefully there will be kids just entering high school aspiring to equal Jake Kriegbaum's or Ross Taplin's success - because those were the state champions on the team when they first became interested in the sport.

I feel this sense of pride to be especially true in the smaller communities of the NWKL. These schools take great pride in having three generations of state medal winners in a family, and rightfully so - what an outstanding achievement this is. And if I am reading tuffenuff2's comments correctly, you can tell the current St. Francis team - which is loaded with terrific , young talent - is already hoping to add another chapter to their storied school history.

Just one person's perspective, but I'd say there are people who care about what was happening 10-15-20 years ago and I'd contend it does have a bearing on what is currently happening in the sport.

If you want current statistics, I can certainly provide them in early March. But I will provide the 2003 state tournament results for the NWKL.

Hoxie - 1st 321A
Oakley - 4th 321A
Oberlin - 5th 321A
Atwood - 6th 321A
St. Francis - 9th 321A
Quinter - no qualifers -
Goodland - tie 2nd 4A
Colby - 7th 4A

So 7 of 8 schools placed in the top ten of their classfication in 2003. The 2003 version of the NWKL produced 8 state champs, 7 state runnerups, 5 3rds, 4 4ths, 5 5ths, 4 6ths and 27 additional state qualifiers.

who was the last sunflower league team to win a state championship?

To Les and Others,

I will be the first to admit that as a whole I don't think the NCKL would be the toughest league perhaps this year. There are Abilene, Clay Center, and Concordia which are are good teams. Then there are the rest. I can't speak for Chapman but om sure Mr. Sweazy can. However there are certain aspect you must look at when considering what consitutes the "toughest" league. If you are talking about competition between members of the league such as duals that is much different then which teams place at state. As any real wrestler or fan nows there are two sides to every team. You be a great tournament team and be a poor dual team, or visa-versa. Since NCKL and NWKL never wrestle duals against each other I don't think its really fair to say one is better than the other. As far as tournament goes I don't think that is a measure of how tough a team is. Abilene won state last year with 5 guys when other teams brought 10 and 11. The fact that Hoxie beat Abilene by so many points at Beloit doesn't mean they are more tough. If im correct Abilene didn't even bring a full team to that tournament. In my opinion if Hoxie and Abilene were to dual it would be really close. As for Ark City I stand by my statement which I made long ago in that as impressive as there streak has been and their sucess has been I don't think they would have fair even close to waht they have had they been wrestling in 4A. Teams that win state in 4A generally go into state being undefeated in duals, with the exception of Abilene last year. Numorous times Ark City has gone into state having lost duals. Which suggests to me that Ark City is a great tournament team but not a great dual team. So factor in everything that makes a team good not just a streak of state titles, and then yo uwill have your real answer as to who is the toughest.