I have a copy of the Smoky Hills TV video of this years 3-1A state tournaments. Commentators Fred Scott and old Mike always have some very incorrect commentary. This year they are quoted as saying there have been only two 4 X state champions in state history Bo Maynes and Matt Treaster. Of course this is very incorrect but I was wondering just how many there have been.
I have a partial list that I put together from memory and some old data in my desk. I am not positive it is all correct. The ones I think are 4 timers are Bo Maynes, Billy Gabel, Roy Oeser, Doug Duell, Matt Treaster, Doug Hoover, ??May from Derby, Jeremy Long, Austin DeVoe?, Devin Bark, Travis Stites, Dusty Spaulding, Zach Robertson, Beau Tillman, Todd Drake, and Todd Layton. Are all these guys 4 timers? are there others?

it looks as if u know your wrestling- one mistake though- beau tillman was a only a three-timer i believe- i think jeremy long beat him one year in the state finals.

I think you are probably correct Beau Tillman did get beat his junior year

You will notice I have a question mark behind his name. Did you actually read my post? If so, you should read the last two lines again.

This info was taken from the web site http://www.kshof.org/highschoolarchives.html/wrestlingBoys.html

The list may not be perfect, but hopefully its close.

Doug Duell, Goodland 1972-75
Roy Oeser, Kapaun 1974-77
Matt Treaster, Beloit 1981-84
Todd Layton, Independence 1984-87
Todd Drake, Andover 1985-88
Justin Ware, Arkansas City 1989-92
Devin Bahm, Arkansas City 1993-96
Bill Gabel, St. Francis 1993-96
Bo Maynes, Salina South 1995-98
Zach Roberson, Blue Valley NW 1996-99
Jeremy Long, Santa Fe Trail 1997-2000
Dusty Spaulding, Emporia 1997-2000
Travis Stites, McPherson 1997-2000
Dustin May, Derby 1998-2001
Doug Hoover, Kapaun 1999-2002

They have not updated their site for this year's results. I don't think there were any 4Xers this year, but probably ought to ask. Were there?

It looks like I missed Justin Ware. Sorry Justin.

no 4 timers this year the closest I know iof were Earl Jones of Coffeyville 3X state champ and Eric Johnson of Norton was a 4 x finalist

Why do you think there have been so many in the last 20-25 years? Increased interest in clubs, camps, etc. Still seems like it would still be harder to accomplish the feat with the more interest the sport continues to get. Seems like there should have been a few more of the older guys, and I say that respectfully.

Still only one from 3-2-1A (Billy Gabel). Wes Harding came real close. Gilliland (sp)from Hoxie next year will have a shot if everything goes his way.
My 6A friends like to say the fact that 3-2-1A has so few is that the wrestling isn't as good, but I say it is because the wrestling is so good that few freshmen are able to win a championship.

Thoughts?

My thoughts? My thoughts are that you don't have any 6A friends after you deserted us......

Actually, I think it's just a matter of chance as to which class has the four-timers. It just depends on where the bad mofo grows up.

For instance- Matt Gilliland could be a four-timer, but he SHOULD be wrestling in 6A, with Hat Town. Unfortunately, the Dark Side wooed him from our clutches, and now he has a good shot to be the 2nd 4x champ from 321a. Would he have been a 4x champ in 6a? Who knows. It all depends on moons, planets, and magical leprechauns in deciding those things, not class.

I think probably 3-1A has so few because wrestling is so good it is hard to beat everyone for four years.

KU Cruiser 1988, In response to your question as to why most of the 4 timers were in the last 25 years, I think it is because of the number of classifications. In 1972, Kansas went to three classifcations. Doug Duell, our first 4 timer, was a freshman in 1972. I'm not saying Kansas might not have some 4 timers if we only had one or two classifications, but I don't think we would have a long list of them.

And as we all know, it's EXTREMELY easy to be a four time champ in 4A, 5A, and 6A. :rolleyes:

Its all speculation as to why there were not many 4x champs through 1980, but I'll throw out a few theories! Shred them up as you see fit!

The limited number of divisions - e.g. one state meet through 1965 - two divisions through 1970 - etc - would have made it very tough to crown a 4x champ.

Another arguement against the "old timers" was there were fewer weight classes (9 classes, then 10, then 11, then 12, now 14) and they were pretty wide ranging often 10 lbs apart. This would have bunched some of the youngsters up with upper classman pretty quickly in the line-up.

Plus the average stature for an 18 year old was a bit different 30-70 years ago than now, so you might have seen more upper classman in the lower weights.

And, if hear say is correct (you know the old "we had to walk to school uphill both ways", etc), maybe it was tougher for freshman to make the team when rosters were 3 or 4 deep.

Steve Lampe was a 3x champ but could not make the team as a freshman. Some of the old NWKL lore indicates that often times the JV or third string guy might have been capable of earning a state medal, but could not crack the starting line-up because he had a state champ in front of him.

This was true in Hoxie at 133# in 1968 when the third string guy placed 2nd in the state after injuries, etc knocked the first two guys out of contention. And I'm sure you can hear the same type of story from any school in the state with a wrestling program.

Just a few theories. Let me know what you think. And feel free to hammer them as you see fit.

Thanks Ron & Les. I have to admit I didn't consider the change in the number of classifications aspect of this question. I was kind of surprised at the small number of 4X'ers in the 321-A classification compared to the larger classes, BUT I don't want to get that debate started again, seriously. I was just curious.

Oh please no not another arguement over which class is the best! This have been covered at least 100 times in the two years I'v ebeen on the site.

A little fuel for the fire: I don't know if you can remember but Beloit was a 321A school until 1984...so Matt Treaster won 3 of his 4 titles in 321A. Then Beloit went 4a his senior year. So does he count as a 321A 4Xer?? Also when Roy Oeser and Doug Duell won their titles in the 70's Kapaun and Goodland were 3A...so does that make them count?

We all know about Gilliland and his shot to be the next 4X champ, but who are some others? Are there juniors-to-be who have two titles? And who does everyone think is the most likely to do it?

Kreigbaum-3 timer senior-to-be

Baldridge-2x junior to be

Can't think of anyone else right now.

Since on the topic of 4x State Champions I've often been asked what happend post High School to Dusty May...he's hit a wall of sorts in the college scene bouncing around from Montana State Northern of Naia then trying to make it at UCO then Down to Bacone of Naia and not I hear he may show up at a Kansas Juco because he redshirted a season at MSN and then grades sucked at UCO and then got Injured at Bacone...heard from a teammate of his that subtance abuse may be part of his downfall...this is sad but answers are needed and should be given to the people of Kansas who route on this young man who accomplished the 4 peat in State competition.