who has gotten the most takedowns in a season and career in high school

Pat Giangrosso from Carroll had 120 takedowns in 1998.

Most takedowns in a season and career is held by Mark Rechtfertig of Blue Valley 271 for a season and 533 for career. You can see most of the state records at http://wrestling.holton.k12.ks.us/staterecords/.

Personally I always thought the most takedowns was a meaningless statistic. My little brother, Rock Westfahl won a couple of state championships in the seventies and in thirty seven straight matches he got only thirty seven takedowns and thirty seven falls. Now that is when takedowns really mean something. Now in that time a lot of people got a lot more takedowns but I doubt if the meant as much as quickly.

Mmr. Westphal, you're on point.

however, perhaps it might be better to list most statistics (takedowns, nearfalls, etc) as a ratio per match rather than total. Wrestlers now have an opportunity to wrestle almost twice as many matches as those in 10, 20 or even 30 years ago.

Just a different way of measuring I guess.

Tim Shea

Tim;
I guess what I am getting to is that, in my opinion, what has gone most wrong with wrestling is control. I participated in a study with Russ Helickson about twenty years ago in which he polled wrestling coaches in twenty six states and found out that statistically, 65% of all falls occurred after takedowns, from pinning combinations that were used in conjunction with takedowns. I see wrestlers now seeing takedowns as the end of the journey rather than the beginning of it. The take them down and let them up philosophy instead of take them down and work them over. Not sure if I like where it is going in that regard.

Mr. Westfahl:

Hooah. But I think that's to be expected. The nature of the 'takedown' is such that (like dunks in basketball or 40 yard passes in football) it captures the excitement of the young wrestler and many young wrestlers today DO feel that's the epitome of the match. I've seen some coaches instruct that you get a TD, then let him up, then TD and go for the pin. I wrestled for Coach Hemmerling many years ago...and he'd have your head on a pole if you wasted a perfectly good takedown.
For those who're adept on their feet then God Bless them. For those who wish to continue the sport at a higher plane then they'll need to understand that there is much, much more to the sport.

Tim

This is just my opinion, but takedowns are a very important part of every wrestling match. I know in the ABilene program we stress takedowns probably more than anything else for a few simple reasons. 1. Most good wrestlers aren't going to be able to take each other down at will, therefore it becomes important to become really good on your feet becuase chances are the match is going to come down to a takedown. My personal philosophy when im wrestling is to get as many takedowns as possible. I set a school record my junior year for takedowns, not becuase I wanted to break it but becuase I was getting as many as possible and perfecting my technique. Falls don't mean crap to me becuase if you match up a wrestler who has spent all their time on top pinning people to a wrestler so has many takedowns 90% of the time the takedown man is going to win. In the practices I run 75% of our time is spent on our feet becuase thats what a real match is going to be like between 2 good wrestlers.

Nigel (Glory Days) Isom,
Is the additional 25% of your practice spent on talking to the kids about how good you were? That would be a pretty good ratio because 75% of your postings are spent on you talking about how good you were and how good you would have been had you not gotten hurt, while the remaining 25% attempts to tie that into the topic.

Nigel was good and i'm sure he still is. I give more respect to a proven badboy wrestler's opinion than i do just some guy who doesn't post their name up when they're talking sh!t.

I agree with Nigel. Takedowns is where its at.

Jason Ross

Thanks Nigel's dad. I value your opinion. Where is Spring Hill?

Speaking from the standpoint of a coach, I'll take the pinner over the takedown artist every time. Takedowns are exciting, I'll grant you, and an integral part of winning the close matches. The fall, however, is the wrestler's equivalent of boxing's 'knock-out punch'; if there's time left on the clock, no point margin (less than 15) is ultimately "safe". Pinning is the true difference between the 'very good' and the 'great'.

Just ask Chris Saferite. This past weekend Chris, now wrestling for the University of Central Oklahoma, wrestled for the NCAA II championship at 125#. His opponent was only good enough on his feet to prevent a takedown. In the second period, the other guy chose top, hooked up a cradle, and pinned Chris.

Incidentally, another former Oriole, Shawn Silvis, won the NCAA II 165# title; UCO won their 13th team title-- congrat's to Coach James and the rest of the Bronchos!!!

Pin to win, baby.

J. D. Hand
Ass't. Coach
Augusta HS

spring hill is just south of Olathe. Its east of Gardner and North of Paola.

Mr. Isom:

I too enjoy takedowns and I will agree that most matches are won or lost on your feet. But that should not be the end-all of the athletic endeavor.

With the evolution of Kansas wrestling toward more aggressive activity, and rule modification on the national level (i.e. overtime, more emphasis on calling stalling) takedowns become even more prevalent. They're enjoyable, easily understood by the fans and, honestly, when two wrestlers are aggressive, often the highlite of the match.

My only point is that the fundatmental nature of catch-as-catch-can (folkstyle) is to pin your opponent (hence the most team points for a fall and the various rewards for nearfall).

How one peels the onion is intirely dependent on their individual skills/desires/coaching. And please don't misunderstand or mistate my position. I'm not denigrating any specific style as whoever scores the most points wins...period. My personal preference is that wrestlers should always work for the fall following their work for the first takedown.

Tim

I think some of you missed my point. I love takedowns. I coached for 25 years in this state preaching them. My point is that 75% of all backpoints and falls come as a result of pinning combinations hit directly after the takedown. I think Coach Hemmerling knew that too from the post I read above. I don't have anything against taking someone down and letting them up but I think it has to be with the thought in mind that my kid is looking for that backpoint opportunity at the end of the takedown, not just the "crowd pleasin" aspect of the takedown. Now if they have a takedown state championship or national championship then I will have to rethink. Sanderson is looking for that everytime he shoots a takedown and he leads the world in backpoints most of them coming off that combination. I have seen a lot of kids get their butt whipped when they tried to be artistic and get a bunch of takedowns for takedowns sake. But as you say anyway to "peel the onion" and if it wins so be it. I do think Falls are worth a lot more than crap though cause they count more last time I looked, and I am saying that in the spirit of fun here.

Mr. Westfahl:

Hooah..you're right on the mark.

Tim Shea

Trevor Charbonneau had 153 takedowns this season