I also loved the Ottawa meet. I think that 6 & u are not ready for state either. If we are not going offer 6u state because they are not mature enough then I don't think we should allow 6u's to enter in 8u!!! Because, if they are not mature enough to wrestle 6u at state then they are definitely not mature enough to wrestle 8u at state. I watched many matches at State on Mat 1 where all the little guys were competing. Some of those little guys looked pretty overwhelmed. Ithink that if we are going to have tthe Ottawa 6u then we ought to leave the 8u state for the 7 and 8 yr olds.
I'm not saying this because I have a 7 or 8 yr old. My son is actually 6. And he will be wrestling at 6u again next year.
I also had the unfortunate opportunity to witness a little bitty (40 lb.) wrestler trying to make weight at state. It was pathetic. Enough said.

The Ottawa meet was great, and it wasn't drug out over two days and there was not a mob of people. Don't put too much emphasis on 6 and under being with the other age groups. It's nice in a place of it's own. Today there are way too many parents who put too much pressure on their kids, at this age they should focus on learning the basics and having fun. There are to many parents that try to live their childhood through there own kids, and that will not work. It makes me sick to see 10 and under parents sit on the edge of the mat and yell, not coach but yell at their kid wrestling, fun???? No, and when the kids see the parents mad because they did not win, well it's all negative. They will have enough pressure in high school, don't push it.

I was one of "those" parents who entered their 6 and under wrestler in the 8 and under sub-districts. He won sub-district and districts then went 0-2 in the State tournament. Yes, he cried a little bit after his losses but I saw much worse behavior out of 10-12-14 and even 16 year olds who threw temper tantrums on the mat.

Did we yell at him when he lost - no - we bought him Dippin' Dots. Within about an hour he had found a piece of cardboard and was "grassboarding" down the hill outside.

I have witnessed parents who yell at their 6 year olds, have seen them drop their kids down a weight class, etc., and I don't claim that those parents aren't out there. But please don't lump all of us into one group of crazy parents who want to live through our kids and think that our kid is the next Olympic wrestler. My 6 year old got into wrestling so early because he has been around it so long watching his brother wrestle. He wants to enter the tournaments that his brother is in - he might as well wrestle because he has to be there anyway. Would I have taken him to State if his older brother wasn't going - probably not. But no harm was done.

What is good for one 6 year old may not be good for another. It all depends on the kid. My kid handled himself pretty well, finished a terrific wrestling season and is going to baseball practice on Monday. But maybe we should consider moving to Colorado - he could possibly become the next snowboard champion!

I have enjoyed reading everyone's posts on this topic. Everyone is showing a concern for their children and for what they feel would be right for them and our Kansas Kids Wrestling. I especially liked the last four posts by mat rat #1, Van Fam 7, jaxx, and wrestlingmom. They were all slightly different but what is best for the kids is what I saw to be the common theme of each.

I know wrestlingmom's family. There is no doubt in my mind that the young man and the family were ready for him to participate in the State tournament this year. Their family is actually the primary one I had in mind when I stated in one of my posts that some families and wrestlers are ready for the tournament. I really thought he might have been ready last year for the tournament. This young man not only won the 8 & under Subs and District but he also won the 6 & Under Park City/Wichita Classic. To me those accomplishments definitely make him qualified as a wrestler to make a run at placing at State. This family is not an example of a pushy sports family. It is a very supportive sports family and their boys are all good multi-sport athletes.

I think this is a worthwhile topic that we can all learn from. I know I'm enjoying it and learning from it.

I just want to explain my situation and how I feel about "pushing "kids...My son is six and this is his second year wresling. He is very excited about the sport. I DO NOT believe in cutting any weight, so there for he weighed 81 lbs and wrestled 88 lb div. at 8 and under and also at Ottawa( even though they changed the weight div. there) I let him choose what he wants to do,and what tournements to go to, and he is the one that wondered why his age was different and yes, he had a wrestler tell him that he "didn't really go to state" because he didn't go to topeka. I guess my biggest problem isn't that they don't get to go to the big meet with everyone else but that they don't get noticed for the things that they do. Where is the page telling who won at Ottowa??I haven't heard a thing? I will let my son wrestle for as long as he wants and where ever he wants. If he does his best I am happy as can be but when he bring up points like this and a few others, I can only tell him the truth. and in this case, what is that?? and to Mr. Salyer, my son is short and husky, he is very strong but only six, Mr. Nowak is correct in his explanation to you. some times its not all just lbs. that matter.

Parents complaining about their 6 year olds not having a division at the state tournament sound as if you think they will always be six. STOP rushing the little ones. "Next year." Is that so hard to say? It's not the 6 & under's time for STATE. There is a 6 & Under Championship. These 6 & under wrestlers hopefully will grow into 8, 10, 12, 14 & 16? Are those champions of 8 & Under from 6, 7, 8 years ago, are they still wrestling? A lot of them still are. I know of some who are not. Pushed too hard in the beginning. Who's to say.

My impression from reading these posts is that those who oppose 6-under at the State tournament believe 6 year olds are too young, can't handle the pressure etc, etc, etc. If that is the case, why do other states have this division including Texas who actually have a younger TOTS 4-5 year old division? And probably a more interesting question would be why do MOST of the big National tournaments like Tulsa, Reno, Kick-off, Rocky Mountain Nationals series, etc offer a 6-under division???? If you think there is less pressure to win in the present method, you are dreaming. Pressure comes from parents and no matter what you do, you can't change that. If kids are mature enough to wrestle in the area tournaments every weekend, then they should be rewarded with an opportunity to qualify and wrestle in State in their own age divisions. Just because the state tournament has always been a certain way does not mean it is the best way. Change can be good especially if it is in the best interest of our kids. It would be interesting to me to know whether the 70% to 30% vote against a 6 yr old division at state by a reletively small group of "leaders" is really a true representation of the majority of members in this organization. If it is great but if this decision is being made my a small group of individuals who cast their vote based primarily on their own viewpoint and not the viewpoint of the people they represent, then the way this decision is made should be,in my opinion, changed.

The votes are cast at the state meeting, and every club is encouraged to send a representative. In fact, they are actually penalized by the loss of a coaches pass at State if they do not send a representative, so this is not a small group of people trying to keep decisions to themselves. Also, for the most part, the people who attend these meetings have been around wrestling for quite a long time and have come to their opinions through much experience. That is not to say that they are perfect, but they are certainly not attempting to cast these votes in secret or without the vote of every club in the state. If you think this voting process needs to be made more reflective of all, the best way to do it is to have a representative of every club present and ready to vote for the position of their club.

Truthfully, the reason why the issue is voted down every year is becuase the people that mostly want a 6&U division at state are those whose own kids are in that group. The people that are voting every year usually don't have any kids in that age. Usually the parents who want it complain and complain for at most a couple of years then their kid moves to the next age class and qualify and they forget about the 6&U idea becuase it doens't pertain to them anymore or they couldn't care less. This really is a dead subject because as you have already seen at least three other times in this post there is no way its going to get passed until a large group of "supporters" aka parents start attending club meetings and bringing up the idea with your presidents or head coaches (whoever is your rep at the state meeting) and take yourselfs to the state meeting and voice your concerns, otherwise you might as well stop talking about. "Actions speak louder than words" -anonymous

Nigel,
Sometimes you need to engage your brain before your fingers. The previous post just explained it to you that most of the people that attend district and state meetings are persons that have been in the sport for numerous years, which is absolutely correct. This would lead one to believe that most of these people do not have wrestlers in the 6U group unless it is younger siblings. The facts are these, district II has a long history of supporting 6U at state. It has been brought up for a vote at the state meeting I believe at least 3 times that I am aware of. It is repeatedly voted down by districts 1 and 3 for the most part. So no, it isn't just the parents of 6U wrestlers that support the addition at state.

Ok, well heres the deal. keep on bringing it up and watch it keep getting voted down.

NO!!! PLEASE DON'T BRING IT UP AGAIN!

So then, if the Board is opposed to 6u at State, why do they allow them to enter at 8u? Does anyone know the answer? It seems to me that, if they are so against 6u at State , and have been for years, they are being hypocritical.

VanFam7

6u's are allowed to enter the state tourney at 8u because they qualified as one of the best at 8u kids in the district. Six is under Eight.

VanFam7, your question was directed to the wrong group. As KCWrestlersMom pointed out in her post, these rules are voted on by the member clubs, each of which gets one vote at the state body meeting. The Kids Executive Council, like the State Body, has those who support adding a 6 & Under division at the state tournament, but (also like the State Body), they are outnumbered by those who are opposed to it.

Irregardless of how the Executive Council feels, however, a simple majority vote by the clubs would make this happen. The issue has been debated, and quite heatedly, at previous state body meetings, and as others have pointed out, the vote by those clubs has consistently been strongly opposed to the addition of a 6 & Under division at state.

I think Coachjt and many others aren't necessarily opposed to the change, they just don't want to have to go through another protracted fight at the state body meeting, unless there is reason to believe that the clubs would vote differently than in the past.

Sorry coach JT I was being sarcastic

VanFam7,

I have never been to a meeting of our association, so I don't actually know how the discussion goes. I would guess however that the practical aspect of resource limitations that I referred to in above post probably has a great deal to do as to why we do not have six & under at State right now. If they were included, you would have even longer waits between matches and even more wrestling age groups would be put on smaller mats. I do believe people are being very sincere when they say that they do not believe most 6 & unders or their families are ready for it. As you go on in wrestling I believe you will find that the success that they achieve in the older age groups will be more significant to their ultimate success as a wrestler. But I really do feel the limited resources have a lot to do with it.

I think if a large group of you really want to see a sanctioned 6 & under State Championship that you would have a better chance of getting the Ottawa or some alternative site designated as the official State 6 & under championship. I just don't see them trying to stretch out the resources of the State tournament even more with another age group.

I have not stated that I am for or against it. I can honestly see both sides of the issue. It would make the tourney longer. Another angle to look at is the numbers of 6u members. That 30$ membership adds up. Those dollars are what help put on the state tourney. Yet, they are denied participation and recognition. Again, I am not for or against 6u state I am just exploring and discussing the issue. I am not pointing fingers or accusing, just curious!

Before adding 6 and under at states, I would like to see that the majority of wrestlers get the opportunity to wrestle on a full mat. Also, the better wrestlers should have longer time periods.
For example, some state championships for kids in the past have had full mats along with 2-2-2- periods for any wrestler over 100 pounds.
The problem with allowing 6 and under is limited resources of mat space etc... and compromising older wrestlers with small mats, short time periods (i.e. 1-1-1) etc. It is generally parents that 'push' their 6 year old without realizing the effect on their kid.

Iowa Fan did you attend the Folkstyle Nationals? I have made comments on this on the Oklahoma Vs. Kansas thread and made mention of the possibiolity of using the weigh in room for extra mats. Well they did this at the Nationals. They could do the U6 and Cadet Division at state with out any additional time being added.. The bottom line is that Kansas Wrestling should support what the majority of PARTICIPANTS want on this issue. It would be interesting to know after the discussions the specific clubs who were opposed. If there was an open voting process the thing might pass, especially when considering the flack that came from those individuals and clubs who did support the issue. To say though that it is already offered and that 5 year olds can compete in a U8 division is, I believe, unrealistic and unfair. It would be interesting to hear of the legalities of this, offering different benefits and qualifications for different groups based solely on age from an attorney. I am solely against Title IX but bad law's often get passed by organizations or individuals not acting appropriately in the first place. If colleges and High Schools had seen the benefit of women's sports this law may have never been passed. It would be a shame to see something like this eventually force itself upon us because of an unwillingness to offer it. By the way and for the record, I don't have a U6 wrestler in my family and probably never will again. One additional comment here, the continuation of the "fight" for this division I believe is worth it. I can think of numerous times in life people have had to fight hard and continually to get something right passed, and it just seems to me that when paying the same price the same benefits, against the same age group of kids is fair.