Congrats at KS State Kids

Congrats to the Champions, Placers, AND Qualifiers at this year's 2014 Kansas Kids State Championships! and ESPECIALLY to those 2014 KSHAA High Schooler kids that came down to wrestle 8th graders! Some Awesome accomplishments this year! Well done young men!

LOL

I will poke the bear. Would like to extend a congrats to all the 6th graders that came down to wrestle the 5th graders.

Quit your crying. They were wrestling their age division. They have wrestled these kids every other year for the last 6 years, what is the big deal. If Jake will do it, I'll have him wrestle 14U again next year just for principle.

I saw ALOT of 8th graders do really well against the High School kids in their age division.

Your welcome, passing the baton.

Ok, Beeson you seem to be a numbers guys. Is there anyway to find out how many 14 and unders were freshman and how many were not? I know we wrestled some good kids this year that didn't make state because at subs and district they were beat out by freshman. So I was wondering about the numbers.

Hey, don't forget the young 7th graders........(thats just an excuse!)

I'm not sure how to find out besides looking at every bracket and best guessing from track. I know that in my sons bracket 8 of the 16 were Freshmen, so exactly 50%. I'll do some checking later tonight and see what I can find on the other brackets.

Just a reminder, I have NO Problem with kids wrestling their age division. It keeps the 14U division from getting watered down.

ESPECIALLY to those 2014 KSHAA High Schooler kids that came down to wrestle 8th graders!

I know that this has been a sore subject for many people. Myself personally dont care either way. But talking about some of the HS state placers coming down so it is easier.... I know of one HS state runner up that lost an 8th grader in this tournament. I am sure there are a few more HS placers that were defeated by 8th graders. So with just a quick glance at this, It does not appear to me that it was easier for some of these HS placers to wrestler 14U.

I have mix feelings about this because physically a 15 year old ,which is what a lot of the freshman are, isbuilt different than a 13 year old. It is the rules and we have wrestled these kids every other year. I was just wondering on numbers. Looking at my son's bracket and if I looked on track correctly , and track was right. He had 13 freshman and 3 8 th graders.

If you look at 8U, 10U, and 12U, the majority of the kids in the state bracket will be the kids at the top of the age bracket. It is tougher being at the bottom of the age division, no matter what age division it is. Just a FACT of LIFE, and it's ok.

My son is a freshman, still 14 until may 21st. Let me tell you, he no easy road to the finals. And a SUPER tough finals match. How many of you complainers are going to have your 8th grader skip freshman year, so he doesn't have to wrestle upper class men? 14 is 14, deal with it.

I'm in the same boat as Spexy my oldest wrestled Highschool JV as a freshman wrestled 14u and ost to an 8th grader. One of my other boys is a fifth grader wrestling 12 and under and lost to two seventh graders at subs. My point is quit complaning and wrestle your age. It really dosen't matter at this point everyone is capable of winning a match regardless of age it only takes someone capitalizing on a mistake. The way this is going we are going to have to put age requirments on highschool so freshmen don't have to wrestle seniors.

How about some cheese with all the whining!!!!! Next, thing people will want is a FR only state. a SOPH only state, a JR only state, and a SR only state. Then probably want to add placing out to 8 places. I want to go back in time and get my 5th or 6th place medal because that's the round I got beat out in.

Mark Baldwin

Not sure anyone was whinning. I was just wondering about how many were freshman. Trust me my son reminds me all the time how it is my fault he has a bad wrestling birthday as he is an 8 th grader that will be 15 in July. Why couldn't I have waited till Sept lol. It's not like the younger ones can't place, 235 champion was an 8th grader. I know there was a 7 th grader from hoxie that placed. I was just wondering on numbers and Beeson likes numbers so I ask

Sometimes the year you wrestle at the bottom of the age is very important, you take your lumps hang in there and get better. Two of our state placers this year barely made state last year. Want to talk about unfair! 3 time state champs going in as freshman in college and cant even get a take down, you have to take your tail kickins at almost every level to get onto the next level!

It's not complaining. Having an 8th grader skip his freshman year? Did you just argue against yourself?

Just a conversation and stating comparisons of weights between 14U and HS division.

14U/120:
1 - Spexarth - 5th/5A
2 - Beeson - 8th
3 - Hoerner - 8th
4 - Murphy - SQ
5 - Odonnell - 8th
6 - Norton - HS JV

HS/120:
1 - Dipman - 3rd/6A
2 - Goldenstein - 4rd/4A
3 - Joint - 2nd/6A
4 - Carney - 2nd/4A
5 - Nienke - 2nd/321A
6 - Verhaeghe - HS SQ
Eck - 6th/4A
Deters - 4th/321A
Crider
Deaton

14 and under 130 had 13 freshman 2 8th graders 1 7th grader. Champion was an 8th grader, 2nd place freshman( 6a state qual.)
3rd freshman(321a 6th place finisher at 126.) 4th place was a 7th grader. 5th place was a freshman and 6th place was also a freshman. Congrats to all who placed at kids state.

Compared to HS 132:

1 - Frame - 3rd/5A
2 - Smith - 2nd/4A
3 - Liles - 6th/5A
Plus two other former HS state placers and other HS SQ's. I applaud the 7th and 8th graders. Awesome job against those high school kids.

I see both sides of this issue, and obviously my son did high school and 14U. We did not get into some long philosophical discussion about how it would look to Talkforum posters. It seems natural to me that you do what you have done since 6U. Last year as an 8th grader he beat some Freshmen on the way to State and was eliminated by 2 Freshman. No complaints.

My issue is with Rough. If he wants to call out dads, coaches, or clubs for making this choice, that’s one thing. But I have a problem with him sarcastically insulting and making fun of young people. Especially when he does not have the courage to follow the rules and post his name and email. Instead of making a reasoned argument or serving a motion to change the official rule, he’s a coward and attacks our young wrestlers.

Now, my son does not read the Talkforum, but some other's might. They should not have to be insulted and questioned by an anonymous poster.

I think this thread should be about Rough's misconduct. If we want to discuss the merits of 14U or H.S., we can find all kinds of old threads on that subject.

Patrick Murphy
pmurphy2468@gmail.com

Fix it this way, get rid of the HS divsion and go back to 16U.

How many HS Seniors was there this weekend? I know some were there but probably not many.

We made all this change and cause the big $k#t storm for a handful of kids.

Then we lose half of them to an out of state event (RMN or VB) that cuts it even lower.

Is it purely money driven to get more entry fees and admission why the HS are catered too so much?

My boy is in HS and so it does impact me.

The HS kids that want to keep wrestling will find somehwere to go between HS and FS/Greco

None were lost to the RMN.

Just GOTTA love the whiners who just want so badly to be offended. My post was not calling anybody out, as much as you so badly want it to be so you can try to suppress an opinion!

I offered congratulations! Perhaps some of the REAL whiners misread my post? SOME Whiners want to take it as "misconduct", and in keeping with the times, some are clawing and scratching and trying to find some reason to take offense! PLEASE! Your whining won't work with me, Not EVER! I made NO attack of young wrestlers at ALL! Don't try to shape my post into what you want sooo badly to be "misconduct" so you can claim victory by suppressing an opinion you don't like!

I don't get concerned about threats. Believe it!

You don't like an anonymous poster, then delete this and suppress an opinion you just don't want to hear! We have PLENTY of that these days everywhere you look! You hyper-sensitive types are an amusing lot to be sure!

You MIGHT be surprised to know that I personally have no issue with HS-14's wrestling in Kids-14u! DUH! Their 14! EVEN IF they placed 1st in HS!!! They should be able to chose either in my opinion! Having said that, It might be an interesting question to ask what was the reasoning a HS'er (be it them, parents, or coaches) made the choice to go 14, and wrestle at least some season-long 14u's, and not HS at KIDS? Just a question. I understand for some it might be an uncomfortable question, but that's all it is, just a question.

This year, only due to a Bylaw stretching.

I count 7 other posters before mine that also appeared to read your post as sarcasm or criticism of the decision to wrestle 14U, not sincere congratulations about success at State. The very first one was laughing out loud about it. What was there to laugh about if you were offering congratulations? You did nothing to correct this interpretation of your post. If I am wrong, I owe you an apology. I don’t think I am wrong.

I am surprised to hear your alleged opinion. But I don’t think it’s sincere. I think it’s someone trying to dig his way out of a corner for sarcastically insulting some kids instead of challenging adults.

Frankly, I think this issue is fine for debate among the adults. You could have criticized the fact we let this occur all you want and I would have said nothing. I really don’t care if people don’t like H.S wrestling 14U. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I see it both ways, but ultimately you have to choose one.

But attacking the kids is wrong and cowardly.

I don't think you owe him or her a apology. I read it the same way you did as I think most of us who read it did. And I thought it was a rule to post your name if you were calling people out.

Mike Dipman

Rough?

Quit trying to insinuate that I am attacking kids! I DID NOT!

I'm not IN a corner, and i have NOTHING to try to dig out of!

So NOW its my job to correct the interpretations of people? NOT!

You don't owe me an apology and I care about ZERO what you or your kind think about ANYTHING!

Love the faux magnanimity! ('You could have criticized the fact we let this occur all you want and I would have said nothing'). Wait, wouldn't that be "attacking kids"? I'm sure even THAT would have been shaped and molded into some "attack" claim as well. Its exhausting trying to keep up with you hyper-sensitive types!

Didn't call anybody out. Murphy did though, and he supplied his name. Again, this is just a tool to suppress opinion's you hyper-sensitive types don't want to read/hear!

IF you are so confident in the fact you were not insulting or trying to stir $h!t up with your first post, then post your name. You should have nothing to hide behind. Like I said before I don’t care either way on this subject. But the fact I posted is that many very good HS wrestlers got beat in 14U by 8th graders.

Lance Geyer

Sounds like your the one that got your feathers ruffled. Talk about sensitive ! You ok ?

Rough,

If you were congratulating them and you are not criticizing the decision for H.S. to wrestle 14U, exactly what opinion “do I not like?” What opinion were you expressing in your initial post that I “don’t want to hear?” Giving congratulations to young men is not expressing an opinion. I think your attempt at a defense reveals your true intent!

Isn’t this kind of like the scene from “A Few Good Men” when Tom Crusie’s character, Lt. Kaffee, cross-examines Coronel Jessup and asks if you didn’t order the code red, why was there a reason to ship Private Santiago off the base?

I agree it must be exhausting for you to keep up, but it’s only because you clearly were trying to express your opinion that H.S. should not wrestle 14. You think I disagree with this opinion and you think I am trying to suppress it.

And I can’t help but think that many people reading this post will be laughing to hear me described as a hyper-sensitive type. I guess I will go curl up on the bear skin rug I shot in Alaska with my personalized photos from the last 3 Republican presidential candidates and my Wayne LaPierre autographed hat from when I saw him and Charlton Heston (all of which really exist and in my basement) and meditate a little bit.

This argument reaches far beyond the age grouping discussion. Coach Wally pointed out the 6th and 5th graders...That is not an apples to apples argument. Right back at you coach... If you don't think your HS program is preparing kids at a greater level than the majority of kids programs in Kansas then you should resign and let someone else take over. If you don't think that wrestling older kids, most the time a FULL age group up, practicing five days a week, and the other intangible benefits of being a HS wrestler for a season, then you should never post on this forum again or you should be trying to get the HS coach in your area fired. There is a VAST difference between the MAJORITY of kids clubs and a high school program. This is a fact and is really not open for argument.

If that is a fact Will, and I believe it is...than high school athletes have no business at kids club state. We need to do away with high school division and make athletes ineligible when they reach high school.....or just let everyone wrestle the age group they are in, can't have out both ways

The only two times my son made Kids' State was when he was on the under side of the age group - 11 and 13. It wasn't as much the wrestlers a year ahead of him but the ones a year behind him that were a pain in the shorts. His Junior year, four Freshman filled up the top four places in his State bracket. I don't think that it is fair to make Juniors and Seniors wrestle Freshman in High School:=}

You get no argument from me... Write up your proposal and email it to the appropriate board as outlined in the Bylaws.

Choice!! This is America and its a choice people have and will continue making to wrestle their age bracket, wrestle up or wrestle in "out of state events"! Get over it! Personally, my son will continue (if we get the invite) to wrestle in the RMN and else where he chooses! Kids are put in no win situations and I'll explain! If a high school state placer wrestles down and wins then people get on here and criticize them because they are older and should win! If they wrestle down and get beat they are still criticized for losing to a younger kid! These are kids that are doing something they love! Let us be the adults and support and applaud them no matter their age!!

Not going to EVER agree or even agree to disagree on this one. Once you have placed at KSHSAA state you have no business wrestling 14U. I don't really think ANY HS wrestler should but I do understand that some kids don't start until they are FR or they are on JV and don't get the competition. That is the compromise I would reluctantly concede.

Coach Prieto,
I am not sure why you directed this post toward me, or even it was suppose to be toward me. I have no problem with RMN. I am one of your sons biggest fans, as I follow his accomplishments throughout the year. As I said multiple times before on this thread it makes me no difference to me either way where HS 14yr olds wrestle. I simply said before and I will say it again. There were some very good HS varsity wrestlers get beat by 8th grade kids this year in the 14U, so it is hard to say that they were running from the competition when they went to 14U.

Lance Geyer

Hey here's an idea. Why don't we do away with everything over 14U and put in a 6U age group. High school kids have their state, it's the last weekend in February. Every year the 6U kids (which last time I checked had alot more in it than the HS division at the club level) work their butts off all year long and get screwed by having to wrestle up to 8U at qualifiers. Let the HS kids be done after February so that they can start FS/Greco or better yet go watch the NCAA's since this is the level that alot of these kids want to get to. How do they know what to expect if they can't go watch it.

My post was directed at nobody, I was just expressing my opinion!
Although it seems like the kids that did attend RMN and VB were the target of some!

Will,
I totally agree with you but it's their choice!

Not bad Jerry. I'm 100% behind that.

something to think about in the future to get our kids ready for the dual format. all those kids that won kansas state should have a dual vs. our friendly neighboring states like missouri, nebraska and oklahoma. state champions vs. state champions at each weight.

Bockman, what the hell are you talking about. You're lost on this one.

instead of all the talking about this i would rather talk about kansas champions wrestling other states champions. have another beer spexy.

Coach Wally pointed out the 6th and 5th graders...That is not an apples to apples argument. Right back at you coach... If you don't think your HS program is preparing kids at a greater level than the majority of kids programs in Kansas then you should resign and let someone else take over. If you don't think that wrestling older kids, most the time a FULL age group up, practicing five days a week, and the other intangible benefits of being a HS wrestler for a season, then you should never post on this forum again or you should be trying to get the HS coach in your area fired. There is a VAST difference between the MAJORITY of kids clubs and a high school program. This is a fact and is really not open for argument.

That was just mean of you William. How dare you say such naughty things about me on here. I push my kids to get better but they are kids. I had a freshman wrestle in the 14 and under and he got second. Didn't make it to state this year in HS. How do you know the 6th grader isn't going to Purler 3 times a week getting top flight instruction and the other kid is practicing 2 times a week with no good partners in the room. It is wrestling and each individual gets to make their own choices within the rules. Like I said I was just poking the bear so I had some fun stuff to read. Please don't take away my ability to post on here. I was just bored. Probably should have been at a practice trying to make my kids better. Damn me. Now stop being mean to me William!

I agree with those that think we should eliminate High School Division from Kids State. We also need to move Sub Districts to the week after High School State (or just eliminate Sub District and wrestle Districts the week after High School State). This will allow those that want to Freestyle a little extra time and should allow us to attend the NCAAs if we want. Some of you may disagree and I would love to hear those other opinions, but yes Will if you can let me know where to get my hands on the bylaws I would be happy to draft a proposal.

I believe Kids clubs are to prepare the kids for High School and High School prepares you for college. So when we get them to High School we should let them move on.

i said this before so i will say it again. eliminate subs. have districts the week before high school state. have high school grand state and kids state under one roof the next week. give the high school kids 2 lb allowance. then you have 8-10-12-14 all wrestling on full mats. the half mats for 12 year olds is not a good thing. i saw tons of take downs that went out of bounds this weekend. if those were on full mats that would have changed the outcome of lots of matches.

Vandy,
If SOMEONE says your OPINION means nothing, that your THOUGHT process is wrong, and that you should STOP posting... well, I guess you'd better LISTEN.

Heck, the ONLY thing that WASN'T criticized was your GRAMMAR.

Brad Kirmer

And your height and weight... lol

Hey, I resemble that remark!