Kansas Wrestling

KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids

Posted By: Beeson

KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/23/15 12:21 AM

Just a couple of things I saw this weekend that could cause some problems for wrestlers concerning KSHSAA.

High School Wrestlers Can NOT wear their High School Singlets. I know coaches are trying to help the wrestlers out but it is against KSHSAA rules for wrestlers to wrestle in their High School Singlets.

High School Head Coaches can not coach 8th graders through 11th graders. They may coach Seniors since they will not be coaching them next year.

I saw both of these violations this weekend and although I would not report this to KSHSAA, pictures, video, and other multi-media venues could cause unwanted problems for Teams, Coaches, and Programs.

Good Luck to everyone this weekend.
Posted By: Spexy

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/23/15 12:29 AM

Then why bring it up. Sometimes you need to remain silent, rather than stirring up crap.

Who cares what singlet is being worn.

You're not excluded, either.
Posted By: Spexy

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/23/15 12:37 AM

And WHO made Beeson the ruler of KANSAS wrestling?? Give the kids a break.

NOBODY HAS EVER HAD AN ISSUE WITH THIS IN THE PAST!!!!

Why now??? Does a singlet really matter?? Maybe that's all they own.

You NEED TO USE YOUR HEAD AND COMMON SENSE.
Posted By: McDonald Boys

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/23/15 12:42 AM

Our club OWNS one of the same singlet designs that the high school wears?
So you'll have to guess if he's wearing a club singlet or a high school singlet.

Good stuff!!
Posted By: jerry davis

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/23/15 12:46 AM

Another stupid kansas rule. How does wearing a singlet benefit a program?
Posted By: AverageWrestler

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/23/15 01:00 AM

I think its perfectly fine for Beeson to point these things out. We all agree the rules are mostly pointless, but its good to at least know if you're doing something wrong. Don't hate on a guy if he knows more than you.
Posted By: sportsfan02

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/23/15 01:13 AM

Originally Posted By: Spexy
Then why bring it up. Sometimes you need to remain silent, rather than stirring up crap.

Who cares what singlet is being worn.

You're not excluded, either.

Because it's the kid who gets punished with the loss of high school eligibility if caught. The kids probably don't know about these rules, nor should they. So it's up to us to keep them informed. And as Chad said, it's KSHSAA who cares.
Posted By: Purple_Freak

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/23/15 01:17 AM

We can almost all agree that the singlet rule is stupid but it is a rule. There are some I guarantee you don't know its a rule and Beeson is doing the right thing by reminding everyone.

No reason risking eligibility issues with KSHSAA simply because they may not know the rule. If you do know the rule and choose to ignore it then you accept that risk of the consequences if they come down.
Posted By: Jeremy Molloy

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/23/15 01:23 AM

Well what about MS kids practicing with HS during HS season? Isn't that against the rules of kshsaa
Posted By: hawkfan79

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/23/15 01:44 AM

I have followed this forum for a long time but have never posted. But this is a topic that several of us have been discussing the last couple of weeks. Just didn't want to stir up a hornet's nest by bringing it up. All I'm going to say is it has been noticed and wondered about out here in District 4. With both high school and middle school kids.
Posted By: Beeson

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/23/15 02:17 AM

Originally Posted By: Spexy
Then why bring it up. Sometimes you need to remain silent, rather than stirring up crap.

Who cares what singlet is being worn.

You're not excluded, either.


KSHSAA cares. I know I'm not excluded, I am just trying to help people out so the kids don't get punished for the ignorance of coaches like yourself. You either did not know the rule or didn't care and broke it on purpose. One makes you ignorant, One makes you an idiot. Which are you Spexy, Ignorant or an Idiot?

Everyone else took it as a friendly reminder to protect the kids.
Posted By: Beeson

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/23/15 02:21 AM

Originally Posted By: Jeremy Molloy
Well what about MS kids practicing with HS during HS season? Isn't that against the rules of kshsaa


It is against the rules. Any program allowing this is breaking the rules and running the risk of the kids and programs being punished.
Posted By: jeremy sekavec

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/23/15 02:33 AM

Beeson,
What about a high school coach coaching his own son? Does the same rule apply
Posted By: Jeremy Molloy

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/23/15 02:33 AM

Yes I know just wanted to make sure you knew for sure and everyone else reading this since it wasn't mentioned
Posted By: Jeremy Molloy

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/23/15 02:36 AM

I will answer for beeson HS coach is allowed to coach his own son
Posted By: jeremy sekavec

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/23/15 02:37 AM

Ok thank you wanted to make sure
Posted By: CWB

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/23/15 03:46 AM

Every one want to help kids wrestling,why not change this crap. Like I have stated many times,if the HS teacher wanted to help ANY kid with math every one would think it was great. But in sports the leaders do not want kids to get extra help IN ANY WAY.Unless it involves cash.Kshsaa is nuts in some of the crap rules they put on HS coaches+kids.


Charles Bradford
Posted By: hawkfan79

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/23/15 04:11 AM

Agree with you totally, CWB. But.... if my school makes it clear to our coaches they can't have contact, work with and coach our kids and other schools are ignoring it, that's not fair. I wish KSHSAA would change the rules, but until they do everyone should have to follow them.
Posted By: CWB

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/23/15 07:45 PM

Hawkfan79 The people/boys that push the rules are the ones getting the best rewards.It is just like taxes,the more loopholes you use the better. I hate to say things like this but if we are lead by people that cannot think straight ,we need to use any and every loop hole. KSHSAA is not there for the best kids they are there to try to make every one equal.That will never happen and should never be tried. They should pat the boys on the back that want more.

Charles Bradford
Posted By: Beeson

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/23/15 10:09 PM

There is a difference between pushing the rules and blatantly breaking them out in the open. Pick your battles, wearing a singlet at a tournament after season. Having your high school coach sit in the corner of matches after season. These are blatant public displays that will only hurt the kids or coaches if they are reported or KSHSAA shows up. Having a High School Coach in attendance and giving advice after the match one on one with the wrestler is pushing the rules legally and benefit the wrestlers. Be smart gentlemen, the ole kiss my ass I'll do what I want attitude is not always the best way to go.
Posted By: CWB

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/24/15 12:44 PM

Beeson
They may not be breaking them.If the kid payed for the singlet, it is his. If he borrowed the singlet is where the problem lies.So in turn loop hole.I watched many many HS coaches coach this last weekend. Every one of them coached from out side of the corner. It is the same as having 5 coaches in the corner,as long as there is only 2 on the mat it is fine.The kids do not win because there is 5 coaches in the corner they win because all of the coaches care.

With all this said,I am A nobody,that has enough brains to see that the crap rules from KSHSAA are NOT there helping ANY kid.I am just a dad coach and will not be more.But I see the crap the HS coaches go though and think it sucks.The HS coaches are afraid to say any thing because some one will tell on them.Or even worse loose there job.It will never be changed if every one is worried about loosing there jobs.

Rules are necessary in any and every sport.But to put rules that dose not help the kids is nuts.

Charles Bradford
Posted By: sportsfan02

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/24/15 12:50 PM

I always ask the question, who is this KSHSAA to be making all these rules? It is obvious far too many people don't know the answer to that question.
Posted By: CWB

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/24/15 12:54 PM

Just so it is noted.Every thing I typ is my thoughts.Not my teams nor my schools. Nor my wifes for that matter :}
Posted By: Toach

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/24/15 02:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Beeson
Just a couple of things I saw this weekend that could cause some problems for wrestlers concerning KSHSAA.

High School Wrestlers Can NOT wear their High School Singlets. I know coaches are trying to help the wrestlers out but it is against KSHSAA rules for wrestlers to wrestle in their High School Singlets.

High School Head Coaches can not coach 8th graders through 11th graders. They may coach Seniors since they will not be coaching them next year.

I saw both of these violations this weekend and although I would not report this to KSHSAA, pictures, video, and other multi-media venues could cause unwanted problems for Teams, Coaches, and Programs.

Good Luck to everyone this weekend.



Just to clarify based on Beeson's wording, does this mean assistant high school coaches are or are not allowed to coach 8th-11th graders?
Posted By: MHS77

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/24/15 02:29 PM

Any high school coach (assistant or head) is not allowed to be the mat coach for his own high school's wrestler during the school year (which obviously includes kids state series and freestyle, etc. up through end of semester. I'm not sure where the rule is posted but this is info I was given.
Posted By: Bones1768

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/24/15 02:54 PM

How about 6&7th graders. Are High School coaches allowed to coach them?
Posted By: Nigel Isom

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/24/15 05:06 PM

I wanted to address several issues posted on this subject in no particular order.

First lets define what KSHSAA has to say about the coaching issue. From the KSHSAA Handbook:

Rule 10. Article 5.

"During the school year, but outside the season of a
sport, coaches/coaches’ aides may not coach in practice
or competition those students they will be coaching
the following year in that sport."

Meaning graduated 8th graders and above who will be wrestling in high school the following year cannot be coached by Head OR Assistant Coaches in their school during the school year.

There is another article that allows coaches to coach their kids in a voluntary manner during summer break, and hold a 1 week camp but that is not at issue here.

Originally Posted By: CWB
Beeson
I watched many many HS coaches coach this last weekend. Every one of them coached from out side of the corner. It is the same as having 5 coaches in the corner,as long as there is only 2 on the mat it is fine.

With all this said,I am A nobody,that has enough brains to see that the crap rules from KSHSAA are NOT there helping ANY kid.I am just a dad coach and will not be more.But I see the crap the HS coaches go though and think it sucks.The HS coaches are afraid to say any thing because some one will tell on them.Or even worse loose there job.It will never be changed if every one is worried about loosing there jobs.

Rules are necessary in any and every sport.But to put rules that dose not help the kids is nuts.
Charles Bradford


Couple of things here. What you stated is incorrect. Just not being in the corner does not meet the burden of not coaching regarding the situation describe in article 5. If you as a high school coach are in the vacinity of a match in progress and you are providing instruction to that wrestler then you are in fact coaching them and in violation of the rule. This would also include providing instruction to them away from the mat at the tournament or in the practice room. If you were just telling them good job or making general conversation that would probably be okay. The easiest way to think about it is, if you are providing instruction to the wrestler that you would say inside of a high school sports season then its not going to be acceptable to say as much outside of the season. To try and skirt the rules like the above situation would likely draw the ire of KSHSAA even more so than just plainly violating it, and it is unethical according to the Coaches Conduct Policy. The people at KSHSAA would see right through that. In this day and age of everyone having a smartphone I would think a coach would not like to have someone videotaping them anywhere near a kid they are going to be coaching the following year.

As has been mentioned the likelihood of someone reporting a coach doing this are probably pretty slim, but if they do you are going to be hard pressed to come up with an explanation given the physical evidence. And risking your job or the eligibility of your wrestler definately isn't worth it.

Now on the the part about the crap nature of the rule. Regardless of how much people may not like a rule, as long as it is a rule it needs to be followed. There is a mechanism in place to change rules like this so if you don't like the rule you should go through that procedure. We don't get to pick and choose which rules we follow and which ones we don't based on our own personal opinions, otherwise whats to stop a coach from allowing their wrestlers to wear plastics during practice as long as they don't see them, etc? I tend to believe coaches have very good intentions and that they wouldn't do something like this on purpose.

Originally Posted By: sportsfan02
I always ask the question, who is this KSHSAA to be making all these rules? It is obvious far too many people don't know the answer to that question.


They are the organization which your school VOLUNTARILY agreed to join. And when the school pays it's dues every year they implicitly and explicitly agree to follow the rules set forth. If a school wishes not to follow those set of rules they are free to leave KSHSAA, of course if they do they won't be allowed to participate against KSHSAA member schools so that kind of limits the options.

Anyway I would say anyone having questions and wanting clarification of these issues, since my post in no way represents KSHSAA's interpretation, should contact Mark Lentz at KSHSAA. He will be more than happy to explain it all to you, including the process to get a rule changed should you choose to pursue that avenue.
Posted By: Vandeventer

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/24/15 05:22 PM

Holy shit Nigel when did they outlaw plastics? What about a box built out of plywood with heat lamps? I suppose you are going to tell me that is illegal now too. I better find that damn KSHSAA Website and that manual thingy.
Posted By: PatrickCavanaugh

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/24/15 05:32 PM

Kshsaa does does not care what any of you want or think. They work for the schools and go unchecked in most of there activities. They have no interest in changing anything. They like it just the way it is. The fact that kansas is bordering at least 2 states that don't put handcuffs on there coaches with these idiotic rules and times they can or can't shows it is doable but not with the current regime. Kshsaa needs there house cleaned of both Musselman and Lentz and need new blood that has an actual interest. And damn Nigel, no wonder your one of the scariest refs out if your reffing my kids match, you seem to be quite the authority of off the mat issues. Must take a lot of your free time.
Posted By: Nigel Isom

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/24/15 05:53 PM

Definately not Patrick. Interpretations of KSHSAA rules are not up to me, in fact I rarely if ever offer my opinion or thoughts on a KSHSAA rule mostly because its not my job to do so. Also part of the reason I comment very infrequently here.

The only reason I did share my last post was because I don't want to see any coach or competitor run afoul of a KSHSAA rule and end up getting in trouble. I want these kids out there competing.
Posted By: doug747

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/24/15 06:03 PM

Kudos to those HS coaches that give a damn enough to actually go and watch their current and future HS wrestlers. If someone turns in a coach for a few words of advice at a kids' tourney, that person is a chicken sh*t. Plain and simple.
Posted By: JCook

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/24/15 06:26 PM

Originally Posted By: doug747
Kudos to those HS coaches that give a damn enough to actually go and watch their current and future HS wrestlers. If someone turns in a coach for a few words of advice at a kids' tourney, that person is a chicken sh*t. Plain and simple.


Yip!!! cool
Posted By: Beeson

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/24/15 07:10 PM

I know of a coach in Kansas that was grabbed by a wrestler from his school to help him. The coach was turned in and had to miss a dual this season, and was told next time he would miss a season. This coach is a great guy and follows the rules, he was just grabbed quickly and acted without thinking. Most of the time no one cares if a High School Coach helps out or not, but I'm sure the parents of the wrestler who lost were the ones that turned this coach in. Do what you want, but be prepared to pay the consequences.
Posted By: CWB

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/24/15 09:13 PM

Ty 1st for stating the rules. I do not look rules up very often,I just use common sense.Witch in our schools seems to be gone.

I understand you beeson on the be prepared.I also think you were trying to help kids/coaches.I just look at it and can't believe we do this to our kids.So I run my mouth some. I am glad I do not know the people on the board or I may get in trouble.

I do know if half of the HS coaches got together and said screw the rule and set and helped their kids at state.There would be O done against them. It would be real hard to fire 200 or so HS coaches at one time. That to me is how you get things done.

They make the change rules policies so hard they will never get changed.Are the kids there for the schools or are the schools there for the kids.

Charles Bradford
Posted By: doug747

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/24/15 09:31 PM

Exactly......swimming got it done though...
Posted By: AverageWrestler

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/24/15 10:18 PM

Originally Posted By: jeremy sekavec
Beeson,
What about a high school coach coaching his own son? Does the same rule apply


Now that's what I call a low blow.
Posted By: ReDPloyd

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/24/15 11:22 PM

I am not sure when this rule was put in place, but when I was wrestling (albeit a long time ago) in the Kids program, the high school coach was also the Kids coach. Silly rule if you ask me. Where is the harm? Who does it put at a disadvantage? Why is this a bad thing for the wrestler or his/her community?
Posted By: PatrickCavanaugh

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/25/15 12:16 AM

Originally Posted By: Nigel Isom
Definately not Patrick. Interpretations of KSHSAA rules are not up to me, in fact I rarely if ever offer my opinion or thoughts on a KSHSAA rule mostly because its not my job to do so. Also part of the reason I comment very infrequently here.

The only reason I did share my last post was because I don't want to see any coach or competitor run afoul of a KSHSAA rule and end up getting in trouble. I want these kids out there competing.

1400 posts and you don't make frequent comments. Ok.... whatever you say.
Posted By: Harry L. LaMar

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/25/15 03:36 AM

Nigel. Show me where the kshsaa rules dictates anybody on earth cannot cheer from the stands and or give a young man advise outside the mat area out of season during the school year. Both are completely legal and not referenced in the kshsaa rulebook, casebook, or manual. There are a different set of kshsaa rules for in season coaching, and for coaching seniors after season, and for coaching during the school year out of season, and for coaching in the summer . The rule you are vaguely referencing is related to, in season coaching. 50 push-ups say you are confused! I will either be enlightened or get stronger!! Lord knows I need both.
Posted By: Harry L. LaMar

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/25/15 03:39 AM

High school coaches would be able to coach grades 5-6-7 if they don't coach junior high. Any dad in American has a right to coach his son if properly licensed and approved ; even in Kansas!!! Give me an amen!
Posted By: Harry L. LaMar

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/25/15 04:01 AM

Changing kshsaa rules is very difficult and there is only one way to do it. It has been done many times my our peers throughout the years. It is ardoius and painstakingly slow.
1. Coach convince their a.d a rule needs changed.
2. Coaches talks to all ad s in their league, gets approval, and writes a proposal letter to the kshsaa and to the executive board
3. Coaches continue to add leagues to Contact leagues until you have a majority
4. Kwca needs to be on board with a similar proposal
All this needs to happen in accordance to the kshsaa calender of sports planning, meet their deadlines.
5 have the coach and ad or league president , schedule a meeting with mussel man and lentz to present the proposals
6. Schedule a meeting with the executive board
7. Have coaches and leagues contact every executive board member to explain why the merits of the change and how it affects the student athlete and school
(Few executive board members true oh understand wrestling)
Follow that process you will see change. Miss one step you will not. Kshsaa listens to administrators. Coaches must convince administrators coaches admin and league presidents must pack the meeting professionally.

Raise your hand and start the process!!!

1. Coaches are educators and should be able to educate when any student athlete wants help!
2. 5 match rule in hs
etc.
And that is what I know about that !!!
Posted By: Harry L. LaMar

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/25/15 04:06 AM

Vandeventon I want to be like you when I grow up. You are the best that has ever been. I might even go as far as saying mvp of the jv!!!!!
Posted By: Harry L. LaMar

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/25/15 04:26 AM

Ok last rant. I bet another 50 push ups if somebody can show me where Usawks officials are responsible to enforce kshsaa rule infractions that happen outside of the hs season. In a rulebook, casebook or kshsaa manual . When refereeing a Usawks meet you do not represent kshsaa in any way shape or form.
Referee,s like anybody else, parents coaches kids, has a right to turn in rule breakers, but not a responsibility,. the only folks charged with that RESPONSIBILITY are the administrators. The coaches are charged with knowing the rules. And are risking way to much to break them. I.e penalizing a kid. Ok I'm going to practice push ups now , Vandeventon, the distinguished mvp the jv would be proud of me!!
Posted By: jeremy sekavec

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/25/15 12:16 PM

Actually Harry, if you are a usakws and a kshsaa official you are required to report any violations you witness. As long as you carry a kshsaa certification you represent kshsaa. It was not that long ago, like four years, that the head dodge city football coach was fired for running practices in the morning in the off season.
I think rule could be tweeked but it is there for a reason. I remember when the rule was put into place and why. Heck, my assistant football was not even allowed to play catch with me and his son because that can be considered a violation. Coaches were running practices basically year round in many sports. Kshsaa stepped in and put the rule in place to protect the kids. It must of had merit otherwise it would not have past the vote.
Sadly, the coach is being punished through the kids. The coach loses them for the year but the kid is the one losing the chance at a state title.
Sorry i just do not think its worth it.
Posted By: doug747

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/25/15 03:30 PM

KSHSAA stepped in and put the rule in place to protect the kids. Yeah right.
Did all of the administrators ask for the rule to be put in place? Typical of govt. Make and rule without gathering any input other than from a few other govt officials, or one parent that didn't want to make the commitment to a program, then make it painstakingly hard to ever change it.......
Posted By: Harry L. LaMar

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/25/15 04:32 PM

Jeremy I am certainly not advocating cheating!!!! Let the coaches coach, officials officiate, wrestlers wrestle, fans cheer , and the administrators do their jobs! What a concept!!!
But I am still betting the push ups where you cannot show me that interpretation from kshsaa. Officials are told every post season to never offer kshsaa interpretations because kshsaa does not want the liability of officials speaking on their behalf. Kshsaa officials have jurisdiction from when they show up at at meet until they sign the scorebook at the end of the meet. That jurisdiction certainly does not extend into the spring and summer. And like I said earlier anybody can report an infraction but only admin are required to. I have been to many executive board meetings and stuck my neck out too many times to help kids. In other words I know way too much useless information about kshsaa rules and policies.
Posted By: Travis Phippen

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/25/15 04:53 PM

I would not trust any interpretation of any rule from anyone including Gary Musselman.
Posted By: Lowe94

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/26/15 04:19 PM

For what it's worth.. Our AD emailed Mark Lentz about this and his response was "High School coaches could coach 8th graders up until they are promoted."
Posted By: Travis Phippen

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/26/15 05:09 PM

Emails from KSHSAA or any of its Executive Directors, especially Gary Mussleman, giving interpretation of rules means absolutely nothing.
Posted By: PatrickCavanaugh

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/26/15 09:14 PM

Really need a like button! Musselman and Lentz! All about CYA.
Posted By: Harry L. LaMar

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/27/15 04:11 AM

Tyler I hope you are correct! But I would certainly have in writing from Kshsaa before I sat in the chair!!
Posted By: Travis Phippen

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/27/15 12:43 PM

Harry, I wish having something in writing from them was valid, but trust me. Gary Musselman himself can interpret a rule and then confirm his interpretation in a second email and still retract everything he said. And unfortunately the Executive Board are sheep and will not hold Musselman or any of his staff for giving an incorrect interpretation. Musselman can squirm his way out of anything he writes. i.e. saying well no rule was broken, but the spirit of the rule was.
Posted By: CWB

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/27/15 01:46 PM

Sounds like normal GOV to me.People that are in power to long follow no rules for themselves.They can interpret anything any way they would like on that day.
Posted By: klintdeere

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/27/15 02:36 PM

crazy stuff isn't it. When i was coaching, sad to say, at times i was the only involved adult in some of the kids lives. I coached football and track as well, not because of my love for those sports, but to maintain contact with the kids i coached on the mat throughout the seasons.

My coaches and i tutored homework sessions before and after practice in and out of season--made sure some of the kids were even fed at times.
Bailed a few out of jail... Hell, i probably broke every rule there was inadvertently about out of season contact.
I know for a fact many of those boys and girls would not even have gone to school if not for the involvement....

It has been years since i had a dog in this fight but it stil infuriates me, especially with the apathetic nature of today...
Posted By: doug747

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/27/15 02:57 PM

You may have just given one of the best arguments for KSHSAA leaving wrestling coaches alone when they are trying to better the kids. Coaches are NOT just trying to make them better wrestlers. Caring, spending time with, and paying attention to a kid forces that kid to decide if they want to smoke dope and disappoint their coach that is involved with them year round, or if they don't have anyone involved with them, there is no question about that decision, you smoke the dope, it's not like anyone gives a sh*t anyway.......don't know if that was a good analogy or not, but I think you get the picture.

Government only thinks that THEY can help kids. From a desk in a high rise, they can make a difference. Bullsh*t. It is one on one interaction that lets a kid know that what this sport is teaching is not just wrestling.

What kshsaa is basically saying is that if you and a kid want to make themselves better, you can't do that because not all kids do it. The problem is that ALL KIDS CAN DO IT if they get their priorities straight. And if they have coaches that care. If KSHSAA can give me one valid point to this rule, that "saves" our kids from something, I"d like to hear it.......
Posted By: Travis Phippen

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/27/15 03:29 PM

Here it is from Musselman himself: “I’m working in a state that values education and the appropriate role of activities in a proper framework that doesn’t cause the tail to wag the dog,” he explained.

“Not all kids in Kansas are similarly situated,” he added. “We have kids who have great parental support and the economic ability to do all kind of wonderful opportunities. And that’s great. But the key is to find the balance that allows them to do that at the same time you don’t disadvantage those who don’t.

“It’s the classic have/have not case. It’s part of why schools form an association: to try and level the playing field.

“Kids in adolescent years fear one thing over anything else, and that’s rejection,” Musselman added. “They don’t want to be cut from a team. To avoid that, some kids say, ‘I won’t even bother.’ They opt out because they know if they don’t play travel ball for 80 games all summer, they have no prayer, that coach already has his team decided.
Posted By: CWB

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/27/15 07:23 PM

Travis there is the problem.What they have done is make it where the ONLY kids that get help have to pay for it.As long as you are paying some one other than the coach it is fine. Well guess what some of us can not pay collage kids to practise with the 7th/8th graders.Most parents don't have the cash to send them to clinics all the time.And if they do have the cash they have trouble finding the time.
Now with a good HS coach they get some of this free.I know my coach did one heck of alot for me.May have saved more times than one.He had a little control over me [where few did].

Klintdeere You nailed it.
Posted By: Travis Phippen

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/27/15 07:41 PM

Well here is a story on the President of the Executive Board of KSHSAA the Principal of Wichita East getting some great national press for his school:)
Principal forces student with Down syndrome to remove high school letter jacket
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/03/principa...l-letter-jacket

Imagine the humiliation by this kid "Take off our letter jacket and put on this girls sweatshirt". These are the awesome folks that we have at the top level at KSHSAA on the executive board!
Posted By: Harry L. LaMar

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/28/15 03:35 AM

Phippen, Wow I don't know the story. I do know I almost had a heart attack reading our fearless leaders quotes. Sad, sad, representation. Let's all go out and have a very ordinary day!!! Let's be sure our kids in ks remain very ordinary. Don't play catch with them or teach them how to spell " more better dan hour boarder staytes"
It kind of reminds me of when they showed our governor at the KU WSU basketball game last week, a couple of popular folks.
I do know I want Phippen on my team and in my foxhole!! They don't make them any better than T.P.! Trust me he did not get there the easy way, he earned all of his accolades and respect! Much like almost every other wrestler that has ever touched a mat. Fight the fight, do it properly, and don't let them break you.
Posted By: Hawks

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/29/15 03:44 AM

What are the rules on wearing a freestyle singlet at the state tournament?
Posted By: PatrickCavanaugh

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/29/15 08:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Hawks
What are the rules on wearing a freestyle singlet at the state tournament?

against the rules but rarely enforced.
Posted By: wrestlingspectat

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/29/15 10:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Hawks
What are the rules on wearing a freestyle singlet at the state tournament?


USA Wrestling Kansas kids modification
rule 4 says

The legality of all uniforms will be up to the referee, and need not conform to the
NFSHSA rule."

essentially they can wear whatever they want at the kids level as long as the referee allows it.
Posted By: PatrickCavanaugh

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/29/15 10:59 PM

Nfsha is the key. They cannot wear whatever they want. 2 years ago at State this was addressed via intercom and the powers that be discovered it was so abused there was no way to enforce it. My son has had to change his greco singlet to compete at folkstyle district.
Posted By: PatrickCavanaugh

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/29/15 11:01 PM

So in essence, your right. As long as the ref allows it. But isn't that everything that happens in this sport?
Posted By: wrestlingspectat

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/29/15 11:08 PM

Technically they can wear whatever but most refs at the kids level woulf prefer the singlet conform to the NFHS rules. The modification was put in place to accomodations kids who didn't have a club issued singlet for whatever reason. It isn't there just for kids that want to be different. So this isn't usually an issue unless someone makes it one.
Posted By: M.Church_AD

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/31/15 06:11 PM

Originally Posted By: doug747
Kudos to those HS coaches that give a damn enough to actually go and watch their current and future HS wrestlers. If someone turns in a coach for a few words of advice at a kids' tourney, that person is a chicken sh*t. Plain and simple.


Many years ago and another program ago I was turned in for sitting in the stands watching a kid wrestle and out of reaction screamed some advice. I normally don't try to step on the toes of club coaches when coaching as it's "Their Turn" (Can't say I get the same courtesy in return) but I saw something, yelled it and was turned in to my A.D. I got a very good tongue lashing about it. I did not have to sit a dual or match but it was mentioned it was not in my best career interest to be coaching or advising anything out of season.

I have never entered a kids Folkstyle tournament again (Probably 9-10 years or more). I go watch some free-style and greco (During the school year) but I have and never will enter a USAWKS or National Folkstyle Tournament again until I have either quit coaching HS, or my own son chooses to wrestle.

I give a crap, it's just not worth the B.S. I do follow a lot on TrackWrestling from home etc. and watch what I can via live-stream and film.

Sucks, but that's just the way it is. There are rules in place and consequences for not following them. Whether I agree or not does not matter in the end. It's whether my bosses agree.
Posted By: M.Church_AD

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/31/15 06:13 PM

Originally Posted By: doug747
KSHSAA stepped in and put the rule in place to protect the kids. Yeah right.
Did all of the administrators ask for the rule to be put in place? Typical of govt. Make and rule without gathering any input other than from a few other govt officials, or one parent that didn't want to make the commitment to a program, then make it painstakingly hard to ever change it.......


100% agree
Posted By: Bones1768

Re: KSHSAA RULES for High School wrestling kids - 03/31/15 07:40 PM

Originally Posted By: PatrickCavanaugh
Originally Posted By: Hawks
What are the rules on wearing a freestyle singlet at the state tournament?

against the rules but rarely enforced.


Never knew this. Heck our club has two different kinds of singlets for the kids to choose from. The freestyle and the folkstyle. They both have the same design on them. Never been questioned about this during a tournament.
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