State Series Review Committee Meeting

Here are the notes from our first ad hoc state series review committee meeting. Please review our ideas and give us feedback. Let us know the problems you see with our ideas. We want input from the membership as we go through this process. Any proposal that this committee comes up with will be given to the USAW-Kansas board for review. If the board approves the proposal then it will come to the State Body at the next State Body meeting in October. No change to the state series structure could take place until the 2018 Kids State Tournament.

This is a summary of our meeting held on January 24, 2016. Each of the committee members have volunteered to serve on the committee. The members present were: Chad Beeson, Matt Treaster, Daniel Reling, Doug Eck, Ed Edison, Joe Knecht, Jonathan Whisnant, Mark Stanley, Scott Schroeder, Tracy Peterson, Will Cokeley, and Zach Campbell. Unable to attend were: Billy Johnson, Cody Parks, Richard Salyer, Ryan Salyer, James Cook, and Travis Keal.

The first hour of the meeting was a brainstorming session on our state series of throwing out ideas of potential changes and discussion of problems those changes might cause. The focus was, “What is best for the kids?” We then made a list of Priorities to see how our ideas could dovetail with our Priorities. Our priorities were then listed as 1) Funding for USAW-KS, 2) Expense to Families, 3) Kids Finish Earlier, 4) 6U Included in State Series 5) Better Fan Base Experience, 6) Grow Participation, 7) Reduce Qualifying Tournaments.

As we discussed the ideas we had come up with in light of these priorities the group came to a consensus to look at the possibility of the following: Splitting the state series into two tournaments. The first tournament would involve the 6, 8, and 10U divisions and be a one day State Tournament held the weekend before the High School Regionals (approx. 2nd weekend in February, district would be 1st weekend in February). The first state tournament would have approximately 950 competitors. There would be a district tournament qualifier from each of the four districts. The second State tournament would be a one day tournament for the 12, 14 and HS divisions and be held two weeks following the KSHSAA State Tournament with a District qualifier one week after KSHSAA state tourneys. The second tournament would have approximately 850 competitors. The registration fee for the State tournaments would be increased by $10-15, or $30-35 (currently it is $20)to offset the $22,000 we receive from the host city organizations. The idea being that this small increase would easily be offset by having to spend two nights in a hotel and meals for two days as our state tournament is currently set up and the savings for not having to attend a sub-district.

A survey will be sent to our membership through Survey Monkey to ask for input from the membership on possible changes. (If a person wants to participate in the survey but they do not believe their email or their wrestler’s email is on file with USA Wrestling, then they can forward their name, email address, club name, and card number (participant or coach) to Joe Knecht at joe.knecht@gmail.com. Once the survey is done we will be able to send each club leader a breakdown of their parents’ and members' responses, which will allow them to determine what their club’s sentiment is.

The next meeting of this ad hoc committee will be at the Salina Bi-Centennial Center on February 28 at 10:00 a.m. This meeting will be held in conjunction with the 6U State/Elementary Duals State.

Thanks,
Matt Treaster
State Folkstyle Director
USAW-Kansas

I have a few questions. 1) if we are splitting the tournament up where will the tournaments be held? If held in Topeka both times it will do parents that have multiple kids in the sport any good because they will have to drive to topeka twice most likely. By the time you figure wear and tear on vehicles, gas, food, time off, etc, you are better off having one tournament. 2) Like the idea of ending earlier but are you going to put a restriction on when the season can start? If not you will be seeing tournaments in November. Tournaments are the main fundraiser for a lot of clubs. 3) Since we are moving the season up, are you willing to compensate the teams that are locked in for march tournaments for the loss of funds? There are many issues we need to look at when making all these decisions.

I do not like the idea of splitting up the state tournament into 2 different weekends. And why are you looking at cutting the wrestling season down by a month and a half. I do understand that wrestling is not a cheap sport with travel and entry expenses but if you cant afford it you don't have to go every weekend. I would hate to see the season get shortened that much. This must have been Cokeleys idea.

I know there have been talks of a change like the proposed one discussed at the state meeting improving Kansas performance at the notational level. I think if this new proposed state format went through it would make our state's performance worse. Here is why. My son currently wrestles a few national tournaments during the regular season. We also compete in at least one maybe two after the state tournament. If the state tournament is moved up we wouldn't compete in any of the national tournaments in April. Because our club would shut down for 6, 8, & 10 after the state tournament. Therefore my son would not compete in any April tournaments. My other problem is I have kids in the older and the younger state tournament. I would prefer to go to only one state tournament.

There are several reasons it is being considered.

Just so everyone is aware Kansas is the last state in the US to have their Kid's State and their HS State.

Iowa is this weekend, OK start their series this weekend.

Think of it this way this would save 3-4 trips to other tournaments that would be held those weekends. The team is trying to develop ideas that will cut down on parents expense and still increase participation. We also realize and even some in the room that have kids that would go to both state series tournaments. Again these are all ideas and work in progress. Again look at the main drivers for the ideas to change, those are the reasons why, and sure we have to figure out logically how it will work and be effective.

If you feel like you have any other ideas and don't want to share them on the forum feel free to email me at tracy.peterson@oneok.com

I just wanted to say "Thanks!" to the individuals willing to sacrifice their personal time to try and improve wrestling in our state! I don't have time to share all of my thoughts right now, but I would be in favor of ending the season a bit earlier and I'm in favor of doing away with sub-districts.

Moving the tournament up would also prevent us from competing at the various national duals in April.

How so?

Not every middle school league has the same season and having the 12, 14, and HS tournament two weeks after high school state would be a problem for us (Pioneer league, 25 schools). For example, this year KSHSAA state 2/26-2/27. If we have qualifying that following weekend - that is our middle school league tournament, so our middle school wrestlers would not be able to compete if they wrestled for their school.

I also don't like ending our younger kids season so early. We can't start any earlier, as we are competing with youth football schedules. We are trying to build the sport, yet shortening the season. So many clubs hold their tournaments for fund raisers, so fewer weeks to hold their tournaments.

Our club would shut down for the younger kids following the state tournament in Mid February. A majority of the kids/families wrestling in Kansas end of the season and major goal is the state tournament. Therefore we wouldn't have anyone one to wrestle with for the next two months (mid February-mid April). I would have my sons compete at a national level without them having any practice. We have a hard enough time finding practice partners for the first two weeks in April after the state tournament. I hope that made sense.

We are only one family. There are many other families the new proposed state series may work well for. I am not trying to offend anyone. Just letting people know how it would affect my family.

As a wrestling fan and a parent of 2 young wrestlers I have some concerns.

My first question…. Are we really trying to make it easier for everyone or are we just trying to move dates and make it easier for high school wrestlers to continue after their season. We will not get the elite high school wrestlers to join kids state after their season. The ones that are wanting to move to the next level (prepare for college wrestling) are moving on to prepare for summer wrestling and other national tournaments. They have nothing to prove by trying to repeat their performance at high school state two weeks later. It will not be a “Grand State.” We are better to drop the high school division completely. Encourage them to move on to bigger and better things, that is what will help them and Kansas Wrestling.

Next… If we move our dates up to me done in the middle of February instead of the end of March we add some new problems. Most clubs run tournaments as “Fund Raisers” (I would still like to know where most of that money goes). Fewer weeks to wrestle means one of three things, 1. Start tournaments dates sooner (good luck competing with football which does not end until beginning of November.) 2. More tournaments on the same weekend which will decrease the numbers at each tournament therefore making clubs raise prices to overcome smaller numbers (in the last 10 years to average cost of tournaments have doubled.) 3. Tournaments will continue after the state series. This also leads to smaller numbers as most kids end when state is over. (Which again raises the rates.)

Finally…. We don’t want to cheapen the state series by just making it another tournament that is hurried up and wrestled in one day. Most kids work towards state as their goal every year, we want it to be a big special tournament, not just another weekend. Not to mention you will be competing with Liberty National, I would like my kids to have the option to do both.

And a side note…. Volunteer coaches would have to make another trip with added expense to them to coach at both state tournaments. (Or I guess they could just go to one of the two state tournaments and have to choose which half of their club to coach.) Not to mention the parents that have wrestlers in both state tournaments, this adds expense to them. And we would need double the volunteers to run tables, set up mats, ect., ect.,….

What is our real goal….

Thanks,
Brad Beeson

Why not do all divisions in one weekend but split it up to be one day tournaments for each age group? Wouldn't cost more for parents with multiple kids qualifying.

Looking at the calendar you could do a district tournament the weekend before hs state and then state the weekend afterward. Obviously this would eliminate the hs division.

This would allow summer wrestling to get started a little earlier and give the high school kids a week off before FS/GR, instead of taking it off while training is taking place.

We appreciate the thoughts and ideas. Please keep them coming.

Thanks,
Matt Treaster

I would bet if someone wants to wrestle, they will find a way. If they want to practice, they will find a way.

TEAM KANSAS will compete in the national duals just like they have in the past.

We need to think outside the box.

Now that I posed what I see as problems….. Here is what I think may help.

First…. More quality tournaments, less quantity tournaments. I know that clubs count on the fund raising from tournaments, (still not sure where that money goes) but would not one 950 kid tournament split and ran by 2 or 3 clubs that split the money do better than three tournaments that are under staffed with 300 participants. That would lead to more diversity in opponents instead of the same 4 kids in a round robin every weekend. Get rid of the novice division…. All of the younger kids are novice, if you want more kids to get medals, then place the top 8. Kids get tired of the same bracket every week.

Next…. Have four district approved qualifiers each year that will award points to determine the seeds at district. This will eliminate any question of seeds and it will encourage better participation in these tournaments that can be rotated and shared among clubs each year for “Fund Raising”. It also make subs less necessary because district will seed it self.

Finally…. 14U is as old as we go… wrestle districts the week after High School State. Then start summer programs with High School and club coming together if they choose. Encourage your High Schoolers to act as mentors and coaches for the two weeks following High School State, builds good character and help little guys who look up to big guys. Keeps high school wrestlers engaged in the sport but allows small break to heal and motivate. It would also be a chance to begin training our coaches and officials of the future.

Side note…. We can work with clubs to transition to freestyle and have more clubs that see the benefits of running freestyle tournaments. This will allow a smoother easier transition and encourage those that enjoy the sport to look forward to freestyle state and not end with folk style… I believe this will help accomplish the goals you have set out.

Due to geographical location we have a hard enough time finding practice partners and such for the first two weeks in April. Clubs completely shut down after Kids state within a 75 mile radius. Summer/Freestyle wrestling is almost non-existent in that same area. The fact is 85% of kids/families involved with wrestling set their season goals on Kids state.

So many kids around here also transition to Baseball/Track in early April.

So I hope you see the difficulty we have with practice in regards to your statement... "If they want to practice, they will find a way. "

greendog,

That is another reason to transition to freestyle faster and make a triple crown the goal.... gets kids engaged in freestyle before the other sports start. Just need to do it the right way.

Bradbee,
problem with that is, traveling baseball starts in january and february out here so moving the dates will not effect the numbers in FS/GR. I understand greendog. Most cases out here you will have to travel about 45 miles to get someone that does FS/GR. Plus you will never get the numbers in Western Kansas like you do in Eastern Kansas. No matter what you do, it will NEVER happen. There is way too much other stuff they are involved in and kids usually don't specialize in one sport out here. So to get the kids engaged would mean we would have to end the season in January. Noble idea but just wont work. Look at the numbers at FS/GR state last year. What did we have 150 kids each series entered? Shortening the season wont make that change.

Team Kansas duals are great but that is what 4 teams 14 sports each? 56-70 kids out of the how many we have in the sport now? How is that helping the broad aspect of the sport? When the state makes the changes they are going to have to look at the broad picture for everyone or we will lose the kids. We can not isolate to just a define group or we are bound to fail

I come from a smaller club in a smaller geographical area. We don’t have access to a “super power” club or have one close, we have more beginners and average wrestlers than state placers.

I like the season ending earlier but would prefer early March over early February. We can all say that the season wouldn’t start earlier but we also know inevitably it would happen.
Football season overlapping truly is a valid concern. I don’t believe you should tell young kids to choose a sport.

I also don’t like splitting up into 2 state tournaments, takes allot of the big stage atmosphere away.

Several people asked what happens to the money from smaller tournaments. Some of that money is used to buy things like singlets, club t-shirts, help pay for USAW cards for the less fortunate, scales, mat cleaning supplies etc.

I agree with others that many of the smaller clubs located away from “city” would just shut the doors until next year.

I don’t understand why just because we are the last state done is that really a big deal? Do those elite wrestlers in KS miss an opportunity at a national tournament because of our state tournament?

We enjoy some of the smaller tournaments and are OK with making the trip to them. Again the club we go to is a beginner or average club, going to those tournaments gives those kids that aren’t the elite wrestlers an opportunity to compete.

High class should not be thrown away. There are many kids that compete in that class that are not the state placers from the big boy tournament. They are the younger JV kids or average wrestlers and it has proven to be beneficial for them.

The thought process of if they want to practice they will find a way shows just how out of touch some people are.

Not everyone is going to do freestyle or summer wrestling that has to sink in with some people. Back to smaller clubs not in the city.

Good thoughts and progress is good but we have to be careful not to just think about this from an elite club near a city mentality. Also not everyone is going to do freestyle no matter how bad some want it.

Why is our season longer in Kansas than the national average and especially our neighboring states? What do they do differently that apparently works for them? These are the questions we need to ask when looking at issues such as this...Newsflash: no matter how it is changed people are going to freak out--& they will get over it.

If baseball starts in January out there and the young wrestlers are still staying through March for the state series, then why would moving the dates hurt anything? They have proved they will stay if there is a good enough incentive (State). If we move the dates we would need to start freestyle tournaments as soon as folkstyle state is over so there is not the void that causes kids to move on. Not all kids will stay with freestyle, and I'm not sure that moving dates is the answer. However if that is what we are considering we need to go in with a plan for March and April so that we are not just giving up earlier. If we transition while there is still a want for more instead of waiting until they are ready to be done, we just may be able to keep interest through Freestyle State.... and in my opinion that would be a big win.

All the push for earlier Freestyle. Yet we see a lot of national level folkstyle tournaments and duals in April. My sons have choose to extend wrestling season (regular season ending with Kansas kids state) with the folkstyle opportunities. It seems like the motivation/rationale to move state is not centered around what it should be.

What are the cons of when state is now (date)? I know it is a long season is one con. I have yet to hear my own kids complain in March about wanting to be done with wrestling.

Ok lets take a look at when the other states are starting. These are all the earliest tournaments i can find on track for each state. This is not including national tournaments.

Nebraska-11-7-15
Colorado- 10-17-15
Kansas- 12-5-15
New Mexico- 11-15-15
Texas- 10-17-15
Oklahoma- 10-17-15
Missouri- 12-06-15

State tournaments for each state
colorado- 3-5-3-6 length of season 140 days
Kansas- 3-25-3-26 length of season 112 days
Missouri 2-27-2-28 (AAU) length of season 84 days
Nebraska 3-12-3-13 length of season 126 days
New Mexico 2-27-2-28 length of season 105 days
Oklahoma 1-28-1-30 length of season 106 days
Texas 2-27-2-28 (AAU) length of season 119 days

Had to use AAu because i could not find a state tournament on track for them under USA wrestling. So the average lenght of season is 113.14 days. This means we are right in line on average. The difference is the start time for the season. So we could move the start time up to November but then again we are fighting football.

Jeremy thanks for that data. I guess the season length is average.

I have a few ideas i have been tossing around for a while. We can shorten the season by having district on the first week in march and state the following weekend. Each district has the choice of district site. But it will have to be like District 2 and have it at Kansas star casino. I know for District 4 i was thinking like Hays. Great facility and neutral travel for almost everyone. Means state would fall on March 12th this year. This should clear up spring break for most people. This also allows the HS division in. The one downfall is you will run into RMN Rocky Mountain Nationals. But this happens anyways right now for the older kids.

Another area i have been thinking on is tournaments. Everyone is talking about how tournaments are getting diluted and competition is not there. Heck i have seen it will my own two eyes. Kinda an idea i was tossing around is having teams work together. By that i mean having two or more teams working together to host a tournament and splitting everything equally. Does not mean we will see better numbers but if we eliminate the options, then the chances increase. The best thing would be have each district only host 1 tournament a weekend. Of course you could travel to any tournament you want but this is not going to happen. But what would be nice is to see is 3-5 tournaments instead of 4-8 tournaments a weekend this might make the competition better. Plus means everyone still gets a chance at fundraising and the cost is split. just an idea. Just think we are getting too spread out and diluted

My two cents
-Eliminate sub-districts state wide
-Districts starts 1st weekend in March (weekend after HS State)
-State will be the following weekend (same age groups as always)
-The season will finish 2 weeks earlier & everyone gets their spring break back and will never interfere with the Easter weekend again.

I personally don't like any of the changes. If you move up the date on the qualifying tournaments then our jr high wrestlers wouldn't get to wrestle in them or they wouldn't have the experience of wrestling jr wrestling. Our last jr high meet is March 5. I think if people are worried about money then why is state centrally located. There are probably more wrestlers in the Wichita area then any other area but instead of having it there we make everybody drive to the north east part of the state. That only benefits the northeastern people. In my opinion leave things alone that isn't broken. There is different ways to save money than shorting the season. If you take out subs then you are probably going to go to a different tournament that weakend so how does that save you any money

We have a 6 & under and Elementary Folk Style State Tournament
Then we have a Middle School Folkstyle Championship (this is used to create national dual teams)
Then we have the USA WKS folk style "State Championship"

We use to only have 1 Folkstyle state tournament with 16 & under as the oldest division, 14U, 12U, 10U, 8U. I liked that - the 16U (typically kids who do not start wrestling until high school) was a good way to develop some the JV guys and not as experience freshman and sophomores who made varsity but may not placed at HS state. Our more experience/accomplished wrestlers will find national events and competition. Taking the older kids state and seperating the young kids state - I do not agree with that. Those 8 & 10 year olds look up to those 12, 14 & 16 year olds for "leadership" at practices and at tournaments. Those are just a few of my thoughts.

The other State Tournament has stayed about the same FS/GR

I think having 2 "State" tournaments is enough - 1 FS/GR and the other Folkstyle.

I think our national dual teams can be determined from the 2 state tournament series. We have been taking a lot of multiple teams to these out of state events and I think they can be very valuable. We need to look very very closely at the attrition rate and where and what age groups we are losing kids and why. My thought process in the morning is more clear when I am at a computer - instead of typing on this phone - so I will share more ideas and experiences with the committee when I get a good nights sleep.

One more thing - length of folkstyle season is about 3.5 -4 months for our clubs open wrestlers - it is about 1 month shorter for the novice group - but they can chose to continue with the open group. The kids from our club have the opportunity for about 3.5 - 4 months for FS/GR. In general a very very small percentage of the approximately 1,500 kids that I have coached over the last 35 years do or did wrestle 8 months of the year.

When does the Survey period begin (date) and end (date)? Just wondering so that the entire membership can have time to appropriately respond to the survey. Can the survey questions be added to this talk forum? When will the survey results be provided to the State Body or Clubs? At the state meeting in the fall in late October or November?

I want to be part of the survey and so should you. Be sure to get it to your club members as well.

(If a person wants to participate in the survey but they do not believe their email or their wrestler’s email is on file with USA Wrestling, then they can forward their name, email address, club name, and card number (participant or coach) to Joe Knecht at joe.knecht@gmail.com.

joe.knecht@gmail.com

Here are my thoughts on this subject.

1. Get rid of subs. No real need for them. My son has had a bracket at subs only 2 times in 6 years in wrestling the current state series. Have districts the week of subs and state the following week. This way the wrestling kids can start summer wrestling, baseball kids can focus on baseball, and I can go fishing sooner.
2. If state is moved up sooner this may help push the state to set a season for JR High wrestling for the whole state to follow. I know my son would rather be a state champion than a Jr. High League champion. Yes my son is going to start his JR. High season on Monday. Kids may have to make tough choices sooner than we like parents. Growing up is hard sometimes.
3. I don't like having two state championships. Remove the High School kids. Put the 6 under kids in their place.


Josh Parker

All valid points. But I'll give my two cents worth......

I didn't hear anyone talk about making it easier on the HS kids to continue. I am one of the ones that is terribly disappointed in the lack of participation of the HS kids at kids' state since we changed it. I'll lay it on Chief Renegade again, him taking a lot of our best to Colorado put the brakes on that division taking off, in my opinion. As soon as we got a "grand state" type format put together, someone puts together an "All Star" team to go out of state, when all of us wanted to see who the baddest man in the state was......

You are correct, there would be less weekends for clubs to run tourneys. There are also opportunities for clubs to work tables at some of the larger tourneys, and get paid for that, without the hassle of running the tourneys from scratch. With the shorter season, there will be less to fund for the clubs. I'm not privy to how clubs spend their tourney profits, but our club self funds, so as far as club expenses that get paid from these profits, I couldn't comment. People go to Oklahoma to wrestle early as it is, and that won't change. We don't start until football is over either. What you need to ask yourself is this: if we started at the same time, will your kids be peaking at state in Feb, if we change it? Right now, I can give example after example of kids that peaked early, and were struggling to "survive" practice and wrestle well at state at the end of March. The kids that can handle this kind of grind, from Nov thru April, won't change a thing. But those that "get sick of it" will benefit from moving the state tourney up.

We won't compete with Liberty Nationals. It is same weekend as HS regionals. 6,8,10 state would be the week before. And Liberty Nationals is one of the most prestigious tourneys in the Midwest, and it is run in one day. Winning Liberty is more of an accomplishment than winning state, so running state in one day isn't a bad thing. We do it for 6u State now.

A lot of families have just one kid wrestling, a lot of families would have kids wrestling in both state tourneys, if it happens. So for sure we benefit the families with only one kid. Only one trip, only one night of hotels. You are correct, the families with kids in both tourneys would have the same amount of hotel that they do with our current 2 day tourney, AND they have an extra trip's worth of gas. But with splitting the tourneys, we have the option to move the tourneys around. Dodge City, Hays, Salina, Wichita, Topeka, Pittsburg, Emporia?, just shooting from the hip there. So there is a possibility that the tourney might be close enough to save the entire hotel room. Right now, only the Topeka area families benefit from having the state tourney in Topeka. I would look forward to sleeping in my own bed during the state tourney for a change. Not to mention the fact that we get HOSED big time on hotel rates in Topeka. With only 900 kids versus 1600 kids, the demand is way down, and the prices would not be so high.

Remember, Wichita and Topeka are the ONLY options for running our state tourney in its current format. Wichita was way high on their "bid", so Topeka is where we are stuck for now.......It's like going to the only car lot in town and they have two cars to choose from, one you struggle to afford, and the other you CAN'T afford. It is the lesser of two evils. With the split tourneys, you get OPTIONS.

Not to mention that the state tourney is a bear to coach the finals, as there are 15 matches (5 age divisions, 1st, 3rd, 5th place matches at same time) going on at the same time. It would be nice to be able to watch more than one of those matches at the same time. At least if we split, there would only be 9 matches going on at the same time. (3 age divisions, 1st, 3rd, 5th place matches at same time)

Those duals teams have grown from taking one team, to now taking I believe 6 teams in Elementary, and I think 6 in Middle School.

I think the Wichita area middle school season would have to change to where the rest of the state is (ends in December or January?), or those middle school kids would be left out of our state series. I think this should happen anyway, but kids would have to make a choice, our state series, or middle school. I think when the coaches and ADs start seeing their numbers decline, it might motivate them to change the middle school season to the same statewide.

"I think our national dual teams can be determined from the 2 state tournament series. We have been taking a lot of multiple teams to these out of state events and I think they can be very valuable. "

You must not have had to listen to the screaming moms and dads back when the teams were "picked". There is NO better way to "pick" the teams, than a tourney. Remember, you have different age groups wrestling middle school state, not just a 14u or 12u. And sometimes the 12u kid is better than the 14u kid.....
So I TOTALLY disagree with your statement. We will get the majority of it right, but a tourney takes all of the complaining out of it.

From what I've read most everyone agrees with getting rid of Sub-Districts. - SEEMS LIKE A LOCK TO PASS

If that is accomplished it seems sensible to move the state series up and be done before spring break. - SEEMS LIKE A NO BRAINER!

HAVING TO WRESTLE OVER SPRING BREAK IS A MAJOR DETERRENT FOR HIGH SCHOOLERS!

I do not like the idea of two state tournaments! Many parents and coaches would still have to attend both. - I ALSO LIKE THE FACT THE YOUNGER KIDS CAN WATCH THE KIDS THEY LOOK UP TO!

Although I think it's very important to raise the level of Kansas wrestling I think the focus needs to be on the wrestling community as a whole AND increasing participation, not just catered to elite wrestlers!

JR. HIGH WRESTLING IN KANSAS IS A JOKE AND NEEDS REFORMED. improving that system would definitely help raise the level of competition.

How does any of these ideas for change cater to elite wrestlers? Elite wrestlers will always be just that, because they will do what is required to hold that stature. If anything, these proposals are catering to those that don't want the season to be as long, which is not typically an argument that an elite wrestler would make. An elite wrestler would be asking for a longer season wouldn't he/she?

That was a general statement....not directed towards your post!

Most of the people trying to make changes were elite wrestlers or Father's of elite wrestlers. That is not a bad thing. The reason they are or were elite is because they have spent many years in our state wrestling system so they are experienced. Most 1st and 2nd year parents have no idea why a change is even needed.

I just don't want to lose sight of the fact that the MAIN GOAL SHOULD BE TO INCREASE PARTICIPATION! The more kids that participate the more elite wrestlers we will eventually have.

While we have a lot of people talking about changes can some one explain to me this. Most of the middle schools in Kansas have 6th through 8th grade in them. Why can't 6th graders be on school athletic teams?

They can participate in all activities other than football, wrestling, and boxing. This comes from the KSHSAA manual. I understand football for injury reasons, but wrestling is by weight, so the kids aren't going against an opponent who is significantly larger or stronger. I'm not sure there are any schools participating in boxing. Quite frequently we see 6th graders in basketball, volleyball and track so teams can be filled.

The hole deal is,most kids do not like having a 5 point through done on them. That is what keeps your kids out of FS/GR.The coaches love to see a kid tossed. It is hard to talk a new kid in to fighting though the learning curve.

I do not think the idea of moving state is for the kids. I think it is for the moms/dads that are tired of setting there.It is easy in my eyes,if the kid wants a break ,take one.If the kid dose not want to start when your club dose,wait a week or three.

As for taking HS out of club state,that is nuts. Every year we have alot of HS kids that cant wait to get back in the room.If you you do not have your KS coming back to your club,YOUR club is doing some thing they need to fix.

You want to help wrestling,let the kids train/wrestle any where any time they want to. That is one thing that would help KS wrestling.


Charles Bradford

I agree. If it isn't broke don't fix it. I think we should keep subs and let the 6 and under wrestle at state with every body else. They deserve their time to. They are a bigger part of kids wrestling then high schoolers are. In my opinion. As for having two separate states is crazy. I know when my boys were younger they looked up to the older wrestlers and would watch them and now that mine are older I see the younger ones looking up to them and I hope someday younger ones up to them and so on. So don't take that away from our youth

I by no means want any kid left out. The 6u should be at state also.

When does the "Survey Monkey" send the survey? What are the questions? Does it get sent to every member - kids and adults? Will budget numbers be included? How are the results tabulated?

If there are 2 separate state tournaments based on USA Wrestling Age Groups - will there still be a elementary and middle school state?

"You must not have had to listen to the screaming moms and dads back when the teams were "picked". There is NO better way to "pick" the teams, than a tourney. Remember, you have different age groups wrestling middle school state, not just a 14u or 12u. And sometimes the 12u kid is better than the 14u kid.....
So I TOTALLY disagree with your statement. We will get the majority of it right, but a tourney takes all of the complaining out of it."

This entire discussion has a lot to do with splitting up the folkstyle state tournament - "State Series Tournament Review Committee" which uses USA Wrestling AGE GROUPS - which amounts to 5 or 6 age group state tournaments - depending on your stance on the appropriate age to wrestle in state tournaments - that is recognized by USA Wrestling. Correct the out of state traveling dual teams is creating 2 more state tournaments with different age groups - I get it with all the SCREAMING - well aware. The reward for making the dual teams should be just that - you get to be on the dual team and test the waters against national competition. If someone doesn't like the teams selected by a spelled out set of criteria - ask for a wrestle off - with no parents in the room. Right now anyone can be on a dual team - they are always trying to fill another 5th or 6th team rosters at the end. Are you advocating for only 2 or 3 state tournaments age and weight classifications - Elementary, Middle School, & High School?

We have had kids go to these events and try to qualify and some did and some did not qualify for the dual teams. If there is a separate qualifying tournament for these out of state events raise the rate/fee to $50 per entry on that qualifying tournament for those who want to participate and try to qualify for the national dual teams. A very small amount of the State Placers or Elite wrestlers from each club go to these qualifiers and try to get on the national dual teams. I think about half of our committee has had there kids wrestle on national dual teams. My son wrestled on some of the dual teams and we paid for him to go and we took and help pay for some others that could not afford it as well. Just some suggestions for the committee.

The more "tolerable" the season is, the more participation we will have. Let's not forget how much of a toll the long season takes on parents. There is such a thing as parent burnout also.

So I agree that theoretically, the more participation we have, the more elite kids we should have. Of course the amount of work they put in will be the determining factor. Having the 6,8,10 state tourney earlier will give options to those that want to head into baseball, and the later national events will give the ones that want to keep wrestling, that opportunity.

There are a lot of kids that don't become "elite" wrestlers until they hit high school, so we want to make sure we don't lose them before that. Right now, it is somewhat "required" to wrestle thru at least the 3rd week of March. This moves that "required" date up over a month, while still allowing them to continue after that date.

THere has been several people saying not to get rid of HS. THere have been several people saying they want 6u kids at state also.

We can't do both. We don't have a venue that can handle it. Hotel rooms are already ridiculous at TOpeka, imagine adding another 300 kids to that demand. So we would have to spend even more money on hotel rooms per night, plus stay another night, to be able to fit the HS and 6u BOTH at the same tourney.

I believe the younger kids can still look up to the older kids. Noone says the older kids can't show up to support them during their state tourney.

We would still need to have an elementary state and middle school state to determine dual teams.

Absolutely, i am NOT advocating for getting rid of the age and weight groups that we have. Are trying to muddy the water here?

You got off topic and said something along the lines of getting rid of Elem and Middle school state, and i was dumb enough to respond. Then you manipulated my comments to read that i was trying to get rid of our age and weight groups, by asking that question.....

we don't even need to talk about the Elem and Mid School state tourneys, nothing is changing with them. They are the ONLY way to determine the dual teams without having to fight the extra headaches associated with "picking" the teams by committee.

This proposal is about the USAWKS state series.

This does NOT have be a drama filled debate. Don't spin what is proposed.

The committee believes that we will get a ton of feedback from the survey. I am sure the rest of the committee is reading this forum.

When was last time a 6u state title got a kid a college scholarship? There are some examples of "elite" 6u wrestlers who can handle the grind of a state series run but for the most part they are not ready. Even if they are, overbearing parents of these "elite" 6 yr olds push a lot of them out of our sport or early success doesn't equate to winning at 9-10 or after and they can't handle loosing. At 5-6 we should be teaching basic body control and promoting sportsmanship. They have the rest of their lives to try to win the rat race.
I have talked with a lot of good wrestlers who have quit wrestling as freshman or sophomore who say they are burnt out because they have been doing it since 5yrs old. Never has a kid who quit told me that an individual season is too long. (Mommy and Daddy have!!!) We competitively start em too young and lose our middle of the road kids in Jr. High and high school or before.
We don't need to shorten the season so that more kids stay out, wrestlers will wrestle!! Embrace the grind or go play with balls!!

And correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think we are wrestling the USA Wrestling age groups, which are every 5 lbs for the most part. Somewhere along the line, we have gone to the "every 3 lbs" approx. for the little guys, and other changes, that USAW KS has deemed appropriate.

We are NOT changing weight classes.

We are NOT changing age groups.

We are proposing moving the 6,8,10 state tourney up to early Feb.

We are proposing moving the 12,14, HS state tourney to early March.

We are proposing the fact that we would have more options for venues, moving the tourney around, cheaper hotel rooms.

We are proposing the fact that some parents with only one kid wrestling, would only have 1 hotel room night to pay for at state.

We acknowledge that it could cause families with a wrestler in each different state tourney, to spend more gas money driving to the second tourney, and back home.

I believe that the hotel room savings would offset that cost.

There could possibly less money made on the state tourneys according to Mark Stanley, but the more i think about that, the more i believe that is not true. Two one-day tourneys with 900 kids should generate as much money or more than one two-day tourney with 1500 kids shouldn't it? I'm not an accountant, and am not familiar with the revenue streams at the current state tourney. We had talked about a higher entry fee for the state tourney to replace lost revenue. RIght now we spend 20, 20, 20 I think, for subs district and state.(District 2 already got rid of the subs and entry) Get rid of subs for the rest of the state, but charge $60 total for districts and state. Those numbers would have to be put together for a firm entry fee number, but we have put that out there. We wouldn't increase the total cost, but want to make sure people don't assume the entry fees would go down.

For district 4, getting rid of subs would get rid of one long road trip for them. It actually can get pretty long for some people in every district......

This won't shorten the season for those that want to keep wrestling. I am on board with a lot of your thoughts, but I also know how a lot of kids and parents are.

It is the easy route to NOT wrestle at all. We all know that. Making it "easier" for those that choose to not wrestle the "post"-season duals and national tourneys isn't hurting anyone that doesn't "want" to be hurt.

My kids' season will remain the same. We will start early November after our football season ends (we cut off our kids' football season the 3rd week of October), so we give them a week or so off until first of NOvemeber. We continue thru the state series, and have always had open rooms around the Wichita area for the kids that want to wrestle AFTER the state series. We'll be folkstylein' til early to mid april, then do a little FS GR through the FS GR State tourney. As our kids get older, they'll do more FS GR. LIttle guys, we do just enough to keep their nose in it.

I have read through all the posts. I still have yet to find a major flaw in our current state tournament set up. The most common thing mentioned was eliminating subs. Then move forward with eliminating subs. After eliminating sub-district move state up a week if you want or leave it.

Whatever happens, obviously, since this is a monopoly, people will be forced to adhere to. I firmly believe that this schedule at least gives people OPTIONS......They can be done in early feb or early march, or they can wrestle thru April. Now they are forced to wrestle thru march. I know, they don't HAVE to do the state series, but of course that is not an option for 99% of the people out there.

This may sound harsh, but if you don't find the hotel costs at Topeka outrageous, you are crazy!! Of course we are all crazy for all we do to keep our kids participating in this great sport......

While we are on the hotel subject, I also have daughters that play softball around the Midwest. There is such a thing as "stay to play", where if you want to play in their tourney, you have to stay at one of their hotels. (not all tourneys are like this, but more and more of them are) This will only allow people with money to participate in those tourneys in my opinion. In Colorado last year, we HAD to stay at a hotel that cost us $169 per night. Hotels.com had hotels all over town for under $100. It shouldn't be the kids' fault that mom and dad can't afford these hotel rooms. If we aren't given the option of moving this tourney around, things aren't going to get any better. Topeka doesn't have an abundance of rooms like Denver, so we max them out, and hence we get screwed.

I can't say that I have complained about the hotel prices in Topeka for state. But we are also a family that will stay in a hotel about 15-20 times a year for sporting events.

Thank you for giving me the credit for coming up with these ideas for improvement. It was actually a collaboration and we all understood that there would be a few that would be very opposed without really giving this any in depth thought.

Our Kids series runs into spring break conflicts, NCAA national tournament conflicts, and into spring sports. For the past several years we have hovered at 1/3 of our Kansas USA Wrestling members participating in the state series. Our greatest numbers are in the 6, 8, and 10 groups. We need to get the majority of these kids off the mat sooner and try to reach the 65% that have not been participating. If you are not trying ideas to grow then you are letting your sport down!

Ask yourself these questions:

Are these age groups getting better because we hold them hostage until late March or is there significant drop out because they grew tired of riding in the car and sitting in the gym? These are grade school kids...

How do you propose to add 6U to the current state format? There is NOT a USAWKS sponsored 6U state at this time...

We are just asking for everyone to state the facts and open this up to some other possible attempts to improve...

We have over 10,000 card holders, counting coaches and competitors, and we have 15 posters on this stream. I don't think that is a fair representation of the populous.

If you eliminate subs for 6, 8, 10 then be prepared for lots of 32 man brackets. That means lots of matches and a long day.

?? Have kids numbers and high school participation
numbers dropped in Kansas the last 5 to 7 years?
Send the survey to all 10,000.
You will be surprised at the "few" you say who are not in favor of the list of "seven" priority items. There is a very large sharp informed membership if the actual "facts" are presented. - I hear apples, oranges and grapes on data all the time. We have been hearing "change is coming" - I just hope it includes the entire memberships input. I do not want it shoved down our throats. I am ready and willing to take the "Survey Monkey"
SEND THE SURVEY to ALL 10,000 members and give them time to respond in a timely manner - post the results with the card numbers and names. That is transparency.

When does the Survey period begin (date) and end (date)? Just wondering so that the entire membership can have time to appropriately respond to the survey. Can the survey questions be added to this talk forum? When will the survey results be provided to the State Body or Clubs? At the state meeting in the fall in late October or November?

I want to be part of the survey and so should you. Be sure to get it to your club members as well.

(If a person wants to participate in the survey but they do not believe their email or their wrestler’s email is on file with USA Wrestling, then they can forward their name, email address, club name, and card number (participant or coach) to Joe Knecht at joe.knecht@gmail.com.

joe.knecht@gmail.com


Edited by smokeycabin (Yesterday at 07:11 AM)

One question I would have about moving kids state to February would be, will we have enough certified officials to officiate high school matches as well as a kids state tournament or 4 district tournaments?

I have not herd kids saying they do not want to go wrestle. I do hear a bunch of parents saying the season is to long.We have a big bunch of kids every year that do not want to go to state. Not because the season is to long ,it is the thought of not winning a match.I hear it every year. To many people put the win in front of the learn.

I have read most of these posts and I talked to a lot of coaches this weekend in Salina. I think we all want more participation, better competition, better development of KS kids to compete on a national level and a shorter season of some kind.

The two things I want added to the discussion are this:

1. Middle School Wrestling needs to have the same season for all kids. I would prefer early (Nov-Mid December)allowing all the middle school kids to compete for the majority of the kids season. (however long we make it) We should also allow MS teams to buy a KS Kids card for all team members, for one price, just like we do for HS teams. Hoping more kids would continue right into the kids season.

2. There are already opportunities to wrestle EVERY Saturday and Sunday, why not introduce some Freestyle & Greco tournament's in the middle of the season on Sundays. This would allow more kids to try FS & GR during the season. You could also do a split session with 6/8/10 wrestling Folkstyle on Sat AM and FS/GR on Sat. PM, then wrestle 12 & 14 U on Sunday Folkstyle AM and FS/GR PM.

Like it or not, the kids who wrestle FS& GR are better all around wrestlers. We need to introduce more kids to the style to improve on the national level.

Now we're getting somewhere! FS/GR Tournaments during the middle of the season should definitely be included in the survey.

Aligning the MS wrestling season all across the state seems like a "no-brainer"...

My wife will be thrilled to hear we are gonna be gone on Sunday as well.........

I do like the idea of FS GR during folkstyle. And yes, it bewilders me why all of the middle school programs don't wrestle at the same time. I think they would be forced to adhere to USAWKS' schedule if we implement these season scheduling changes.

Doug,

"Maybe so" is all I can say to your comment about the middle schools shifting their seasons. But I wouldn’t count on it. So if we move our schedule around in such a way that is in conflict with some middle school seasons we will in effect be making the kids/parents choose one or the other. Depending on those choices the schools options on how to react are wide ranging.

1) They could choose to compete with us for the athletes and they could be upset that we are competing with them. Whatever kids they are successful retaining will in effect drive down our numbers.
2) If we are successful in getting kids to wrestle club instead of for Middle School teams it could lead to some Middle School programs being eliminated due to lack of participation. This would in effect eliminate some kid’s from the HS pipeline that do not have the means compete at the club level (or just don’t want to).
3) They could move there season.

Of the three things that could happen, two of them are not good for USAWKS participation numbers and/or could negatively impact getting kids exposed to wrestling in the 2-3 formative years before they get into the HS room.

The main point of this post is to say we should go into any changes with our eyes wide open.

There are numerous reasons that the MS seasons are when they are (even if we don't agree with these reasons or the logic behind them we need to understand what they are)....some include;

1) Facilities availability (sharing facilities with other programs)
2) Coach availability (sharing coaches with other programs)
3) Desire of the local communities

If the Middle School schedule was prime to change then change would happen with our without outside pressure. I don’t think it’s safe to assume that "anything" we do will “force” the Middle School Leagues to do anything and we need to be prepared to deal with the consequences of our actions.

Mark Stanley

Great points Mark. I don't think people understand that many administrators and board members at schools DON'T even care one little bit about when the kids wrestling season ends. I know the school district we are in basketball is #1 and wrestling is a mere afterthought.

If they don't change the MS season, I believe the top wrestlers will break with our series, and the others will probably stick with MS. I see no problem with that. In fact we may have more OVERALL participation. Knowing the studs will not be tying them into a pretzel, we may get more MS participation, which will keep those kids out until they mature and are able match testosterone levels with the kids that have been tough from a younger age.

I don't want to shut down middle school wrestling. I want more kids wrestling. I think our plan, in the long haul, after everyone gets over the resistance to any change, will improve overall numbers. And it will get the largest group of cardholders, 6U, into the same series as the rest of the kids. I don't put a huge amount of emphasis on winning at 6U, but I think they should be a part of our series.

You wouldn't have heard me say that several years ago, so if a bullheaded SOB like me can change his tune and accept changes, anyone can...

TRUE!

1. Middle School Wrestling needs to have the same season for all kids. I would prefer early (Nov-Mid December)allowing all the middle school kids to compete for the majority of the kids season. (however long we make it) We should also allow MS teams to buy a KS Kids card for all team members, for one price, just like we do for HS teams. Hoping more kids would continue right into the kids season.[/quote]

AS A KIDS CLUB/JR. HIGH/HIGH SCHOOL COACH I FIRMLY BELIEVE JR. HIGH REFORM IS A TOP PRIORITY.....IT'S A JOKE RIGHT NOW. All schools should be on the same schedule and we should have a state tournament that holds some clout!



[color:#FF0000][/color]

The middle school problem is not one that USAWKS can tackle. Our board has ZERO say or influence on the policies and practices of the KSHSAA. A proposal can be written to structure the above mentioned thoughts. This proposal would then need the sponsorship of an Athletic Director from a member school and to really carry some weight an AD that is a league commissioner. I really don't believe our administrators have any idea how unorganized middle school wrestling is. I really have no idea why KSHSAA cares if kids do both as there exists no qualifying series to crown a KSHSAA Middle School state champion. Weight classes, if they exist, are loosely established in many of the leagues. Some leagues don't keep team score at all and most offer almost no weekend tournaments. Why would any administrator care if kids were doing both?

I have long believed what Doug has stated. If we build it the best will join us. It might have the impact he suggested as many of the MS wrestlers are dabbling or trying it because it is FREE.

My suggestion... Call your local AD! Organize your ideas and go after your school administrators to let them know YOU care.

I've got a question. It's been stated previously that 65% of wrestlers don't compete in the state series. Is this 65% of all wrestlers, or is it 65% of the wrestlers allowed to compete in the state series? 6 & Under currently isn't a division when it comes to State, so basically the entire division doesn't wrestle the State Series except for those few that choose to jump up to 8 & Under. That would obviously skew those numbers greatly if you automatically take out an entire division.

What is the percentage of 8 year old's not competing in the state tournament series? How about 10's, 12's and 14's? I haven't been able to find it on the website, but years ago they used to post the number of card registrations for each age division on the site. If anybody can find that, can you point me in the right direction.

Another question. Missouri held their USA State tournament last year the same weekend we held ours. Does anybody know whether they have the same drop in number of card holders compared to the wrestlers participating in their state series?

I have followed this thread and have been considering my thoughts carefully. I realize I don't have all the information about dates, other events, and conflicts of scheduling. with that being said I believe moving the state series before spring break is a fantastic idea. But to move it 6 or 7 weeks to the begging of February seems to only accommodate baseball. (which 8 and 10 year olds be pleasured by league teams in January is asinine. MLB don't even start tell April,3) And will encroach on football, which is a more compatible sport with wrestling.
As far as adding 6U to state, and growth of participation I believe they are related. I am not a statistician numbers guru but I have been looking at open novice tournaments on Track and just reading # in each division there seems to be a pattern of decline in the transition between 6U and 8U open. Just because a 5 or 6 year old can knock some one down an lay on them and have success is not turning into a skillset to even be an average wrestler at 7 and 8. Your always going to loose kids but the percentage is to high. It looks like we probably loose 50% of 6U kids and of those 50% that stay we probably loose 30% at 8U because they didn't have success with the knock down and flop. I think USA Wrestling is right to not recognize a 6U .

I appreciate everyone who has taken the time to post on this thread. There are several things that have been brought up that were not talked about by the review committee. I am keeping track of each of the ideas/topics that are being brought up so we can talk about them at our next meeting.

I also want to express that we are doing all we can to make the work of this committee as open and transparent as we can. In the end, there will simply be a set of ideas that will be presented to the State Body and it will be up to the State Body what to accept and what to decline.

Thanks for the input, thoughts, and ideas. Please keep them coming.

Matt Treaster

Thanks for all your hard work and time!

Here's a couple of proposals. Feel free to pick it apart.

1) Eliminate HS division in state series. The experiment to create a grand state has failed. Time to either eliminate HS division all together or bring back the 16 & Under division. I always thought the 16 & Unders were needed to give extra mat time to those from HS that needed it, but I'm not opposed to eliminating it altogether either. HS wrestlers can start focusing on Freestyle/Greco right after HS State, which gives them an extra month of preparation. They can throw in a another month of the regional training centers or have some clinics on the weekends if they don't want to have tournaments because of the low numbers with this extra month.

2) Change the weight classes in the age divisions to every 5 lbs. instead of every 3 or 4, along with the weight jumps as they are now in the bigger weight classes. This should increase the competition level in the brackets. This is the whole steel sharpens steel analogy, which should help when it comes to how we fair against other states at national/regional tournaments in the long run.

3) Add 6 & Unders to state series. If we were to implement the second part, it would eliminate 11 weight classes from the state tournament by my count. With the reduction in weight classes we could add the 6 & Unders division in 5 lb increments even if we decided to keep the HS division or bring back the 16 & Unders.

4) Have districts the week after HS State, and State the following weekend. We'd eliminate a couple weeks off the season, allow those who would like to go to the NCAA's the ability to do so, give every family in the state their spring break back, and not eliminate half of the current season as the current proposal being floated does. This does create an issue for MS kids wrestling the late season. I guess they would have to decide which is more important that last week of the MS
season; their conference tournament or the state tournament.

5) Take a good hard look at a proposal offered by Wichita when it comes to the state tournament. I know that it's been said it would cost the state more to host the tournament in Wichita than Topeka when it last came up for bid. Since it's already been proposed to increase the cost of the entry fee for state, could
the additional expense of the Wichita location be offset by the increase in entry fee for the tournament? The state would make the same amount of money, and it might be cheaper for a family if the entry fee to state is double but they end up saving $50 to $80 or whatever on hotel costs.

OK rzimmerman. The invite is accepted. Point 1. According to who, you? You have no credibility other then getting over obviously on kansas wrestling with your kids club tournament for years!! There have been some brutall brackets at the kids state tournament in the high school division. Point 2. Change to 5 pounds for what age class and up to what weight??? Very vague. Point 3 and 4 I agree. Point 5, what wrestler or wrestler family doesn't go to State due to venue? They are going to go regardless. The only tournament that gets over more on kansas wrestlers then State at Topeka is the Tournament of Champions in Salina. There feel bether, thanks for the invite.

Patrick, I'm not saying that there aren't good wrestlers or brutal brackets in the HS division at State. That wasn't what my point was intending to convey, and if it was misunderstood then I owe an apology.

When they went from the 16 & Under to the HS division, the idea was to create a "grand state" with that would create a bracket with the top placers from each of the high school classifications. This might have happened in some brackets over the years, but for the most part it hasn't.

As far as the 5th point, right now the 6, 8, and 10 age groups have weight classes every 3 lbs. The 12 & Under class is for a large portion of it weight classes every 4 lbs. If we make the weight classes every 5 lbs for those age groups, it would 1) make for tougher brackets throughout the season and 2) would free up some weight classes at State to add the 6's even if it was decided to keep the HS or 16 & Under division.

You're right, I don't think anybody is going to skip the state tournament due to the venue, or because it is in Topeka, or because the cost of hotel rooms. Several of the previous post brought up saving parents money for the weekend of state due to the hotel prices in Topeka as one of the things they were considering in this. This was merely another thing for them to consider when deciding the next contract. I'm guessing that for anybody staying in a hotel that weekend, they wouldn't mind saving a little money if they can.

The State Series Review Committee met during the 6U and Elementary Dual State Tournament in Salina on February 28. Present at the meeting were: Jonathan Whisnant, Mark Stanley, Tracy Peterson, Will Cokeley, Zach Campbell, Matt Treaster, Richard Salyer, Doug Eck, Daniel Reiling, and Chad Beeson.

The committee started out by reviewing what had taken place and was discussed at the prior meeting on January 24, 2016. We then discussed our focus point of "What is Best for Kids?". an article from the National Wrestling Coaches Association, Importance of Recover by Dennis Johnson, EdD, and the new Athlete Development Model (ADM)from USA Wrestling was reviewed. The committee then went through the suggestions/input which had been made by members through email or the talk forum.

It was decided that the next step would be to send out the survey to the membership on the state series and possible changes. Once the surevy was returned, the committee would then review the results at its next meeting. No meeting date was set pending the survey.

Thanks,
Matt Treaster
Folkstyle Director
USAW-Kansas

There are great ideas, and a lot of experience and knowledge about our sport, and for that I am grateful.

Someone mentioned that they hadn't heard "kids say they wanted a shorter season"- that may be true. My kid wouldn't admit to you he's tired. But as a parent I know, and I see him struggle down the stretch, and struggle on nights that baseball practice is before wrestling, and then after wrestling is homework. I know we aren't the only family in this situation. And for what it's worth no matter what changes, if any at all, we will still wrestle.

That said- I would have to agree with Rich, lets get some more competition - what's another 2 or 3 pounds? More mat time with different kids equals better wrestlers.

As far as shortening the season- I won't complain if they do, but again, we will wrestle no matter what. I do see some benefits to ending before spring break.

These are just my opinions, as a grateful mom, who can't believe our time in kids wrestling is almost over, it has honestly been some of the best times of our lives. We have been very blessed to be part of an amazing sport, and I hope that there can be improvements made, so other families feel as great about it as we do.

Moving the State Tournament to a split tournament would suck for the coaches that don't have a dog in the fight but still coach because they love the sport and the kids. MS needs to stop and let the 6-8 graders wrestle kids club. This saves money for the school districts and the competition is better in club wrestling. I wouldn't want to take out the HS division at kids state, even if the numbers are low the state series is still making money. The true changes need to come in KSHSAA, then kids wrestling can adjust. The whole idea of youth sports is to make them better for the next level. So if HS wrestlers want to come back and compete in kids State against a 6a, 5a,4a or 321a athlete, then let them. KSHSAA needs to have their State series before the NJCAA National tournament. This would give our KS wrestling athletes to be seen by all college level coaches at the biggest HS tournament. I wouldn't want to change the weight classes to 5lb increments for the 6,8,10 you do that and you will lose wrestlers that weigh 51 and have to wrestle 55. Thats a huge difference at 6,8 and 10 under. The whole idea is to have numbers. The great will excel, the good will get better and the average will hopefully wrestle in HS and be a good work out partner for one of the great. It seems that you parents and coaches that have that great stud wrestler (athlete) forget about that average work out partner that puts in just as much time in the room 5 days a week but gets no credit for your kid winning the State Championship. Who cares what the other states schedules are, we are Kansas! Building athletes to compete in college even at the highest level. P Weigel (OSU) won the Big 12 this weekend as the #5 seed. Thats at the highest level, just look at all of the Kansas wrestlers in college (All Levels) this year and their accomplishments. Good Luck Review Committee

I am going to have to disagree about the four pounds being that big a deal. Four pounds is only a big deal if the coaches and parents make it a big deal.

Josh Parker

While I don’t mind the idea of FS/GR during the season I’m not sure how well they would go over based on the thought of how many clubs have time to teach both and how many would wrestle both. I see several weights being combined.

What are the chances some people get upset with decisions here and start wrestling/building AAU like Missouri does? It probably wouldn’t go over well at 1st but it could build in the long run.

I still believe we need to end earlier just not a month. Regardless of some people sales pitch it will force clubs to start earlier or be behind. Tournaments will start popping up in November no doubt and that is just crazy IMO.

We could definitely re-look the weight classes, the heavy ones that were added this year have little to no participation in the state series.

My biggest concern is splitting the state tournament, this weekend will be a great atmosphere and to take that away and split it up just seems crazy to me.

Oh and I booked a room today at Forbes Super 8 for $79. Yes there are hotels that are way more expensive but anytime/anywhere there is an event that fills a city they are going to raise the rates, check any college or professional sports town, they all do it.

Any update here? Or are we just going to let the Expo contract expire and only have the option to go split, smaller state tournament?

One tournament. 4 days. 64/128 man brackets. For all the marbles. No Subs or District and knocks out 2 weeks earlier roughly. There's your update.....

Has the survey been created or sent out to the membership - covering the topics being voted on in 2 months?


239036 - January, 28 2016 06:50 AM Re: State Series Review Committee Meeting [Re: smokeycabin]
smokeycabin Online content
Member

Registered: July, 07 2001
Posts: 5074
Loc: Shawnee Kansas
When does the Survey period begin (date) and end (date)? Just wondering so that the entire membership can have time to appropriately respond to the survey. Can the survey questions be added to this talk forum? When will the survey results be provided to the State Body or Clubs? At the state meeting in the fall in late October or November?

I want to be part of the survey and so should you. Be sure to get it to your club members as well.

(If a person wants to participate in the survey but they do not believe their email or their wrestler’s email is on file with USA Wrestling, then they can forward their name, email address, club name, and card number (participant or coach) to Joe Knecht at joe.knecht@gmail.com.

joe.knecht@gmail.com


Edited by smokeycabin (January, 28 2016 07:11 AM)

Here is the survey I received today

1. Do you feel the USAWKS folkstyle season is:
Too Long
Too Short
Just Right
2. Do you favor having the state folkstyle tournament earlier in the year?
Yes
No
No Preference
3. Would you support moving the Kansas Kids State Tournament series to an early date on the calendar (such as February or early March)?
Yes - February
Yes - Early March
No
No Preference
4. Should USAWKS add the 6&U age division to the Kansas Kids State Tournament series?
Yes
No
No Preference
5. Knowing that there is no facility in the state that could handle the 6U age group added to our current state tournament format, if we added 6U which option would you support:
Create two tournament series (for example: 6U, 8U, 10U in one and 12U, 14U, and HS in another).
Lengthen the current format by adding an additional half day to the weekend of wrestling.
Other (please specify)

6. Would it be feasible and supported by you to have the 6U, 8U, 10U age groups complete their state series in February?
Yes
No
No Preference
7. Do you support balanced districts which should have nearly equal number of participants?
Yes
No
No Prefere

I want to be part of the survey and so should you. Be sure to get it to your club members as well.

(If a person wants to participate in the survey but they do not believe their email or their wrestler’s email is on file with USA Wrestling, then they can forward their name, email address, club name, and card number (participant or coach) to Joe Knecht at joe.knecht@gmail.com.

joe.knecht@gmail.com

I don't understand why we are sending out surveys to the general membership. Aren't the representatives who bother to show up to district and the state body meetings a referendum on how the organization should be run? If not, why have meetings at all?

Bump